Ranked Game Matchmaking - AIs or Humans?

Discussion in 'Card Hunter General Chat' started by Jon, May 17, 2013.


Should the matchmaker:

  1. Be changed to be more likely to match you against an AI

  2. Be changed to be more likely to match you against a human, regardless of their rating

  3. Stay like it is

  1. Xaphedo

    Xaphedo Kobold

    AI is insanely easy, 100% of the time it's a win.

    I would rather go against the 1500s and get a -1 ranking for losing than play against the dumb AI.

    And, let's say I get +100 if I win, wouldn't that make my day?
    Also, let's say he gets -50 if he loses, wouldn't that be serious feedback about rethinking his tactics?

    Last match I played was against a guy I don't remember the name of (that's an useful detail, isn't it?) and was absolutely great. We were both on the edge, carefully thinking all of our moves, while time was running away. At the start of the last round I was 2/6 stars and with 50 seconds left - regardless, I managed to win, 3 seconds ahead of the clock. It felt fucking awesome, I tell you.
    Don't even get me started on the examples, playing against a real opponent is twenty times more exciting and feels way more rewarding.

    You shouldn't play MP to win. You should play to have an unbelievable amount fun.
  2. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    How about we make that choice real simple and realize its already in game. If they are playing for items visit the campaign if they want pvp interesting the pvp que works for that.
    Xaphedo likes this.
  3. Evolved

    Evolved Mushroom Warrior

    I would like if after a some time instead of just throwing you into a match against AI instead you were given to option to "Join vs AI now" or "wait to continue looking for a human opponent". At this point aside from farming chests, AI doesn't really offer much in the way of tactical development, so I'd prefer an active choice on my behalf rather than having my hand forced.
    Rorre likes this.
  4. Sayeth Aether

    Sayeth Aether Mushroom Warrior

    Agree with Evolved, I very much prefer to play against real people who have some very exotic item sets instead of AI who is very predictable and nonsensical in some of the targeting/movement choices
    Xaphedo likes this.
  5. Gnug315

    Gnug315 Mushroom Warrior

    I'm very glad the AI is an option. It helped me get to grips with basics. It quickly became apparent that it's not up to snuff, tho, and offers nothing in the form of real challenge or entertainment. Imho, it needs improving (which I would imagine is very difficult), or an unfair advantage (perhaps especially unfair vs higher ranked players) or removing entirely - I liked the option to choose whether to wait longer for human or not (though that can be done already with a timer resubmit).

    It's difficult to please all the people all the time. Perhaps some sort of option regarding how far apart one accepts challenges, set in advance so as not to be abusable after seeing who is in the room.
  6. Sayeth Aether

    Sayeth Aether Mushroom Warrior

    Maybe allowing players up to a certain level to fight against AI but once you reach that level, you will ONLY be matched against a living person no matter the difference in rating. Because if you get high enough in the rating, the difference between cards will not be all that great as between a newbie's first game and veteran's 100th match
  7. Mutak

    Mutak Goblin Champion

    I like faster queue times, but i think that AI opponents should give loot but not affect your rating.
  8. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

    OK, so in the next build (after 2.21) there will be a checkbox that allows you to opt out of AI matches. If you check this, you will sit in the queue for an indefinite time until we find you an appropriate human opponent. Of course, you can always cancel out of the queue and start again against the AI if you get bored.

    I'm also putting a hard cap on rating deltas. You will never get matched against another player whose rating is more than 600 away from yours. This is a number we obviously need to play around with.
    Lauris likes this.
  9. Darkmatter

    Darkmatter Kobold

    I would like to have the option to play against an AI or a human at all times. I don't know how hard it is to code opponent difficulty, but different AI opponents (perhaps some characters from the campaign?) with differing play-styles and skills would be awesome. I think this would add to the game flavour, and also enable noobs like me to actively want to try multiplayer without the fear of a bad experience. I don't want to be farmed. Nothing puts a more bitter taste in my mouth than being hopelessly outmatched by someone who doesn't even consider me an opponent, just a means to an end.
  10. Lauris

    Lauris Kobold

    Thank you! That is just what I need!
  11. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    Excellent news i definitely think people should be able to opt out of ai games if they wish.
  12. Will-

    Will- Kobold

    I feel that it is hard to test matchmaking due to this being beta and not everyone playing. As I think others mentioned this becomes less of a problem when there are more players, with a reasonable amount of players there should never be a problem.
  13. Mastruq

    Mastruq Kobold

    Is the ranking vs AI a temporary solution because the beta population doesnt support proper PVP yet, or is it intended to stay after release?

    I feel very strongly about anything ranked being either only PVE (vs AI) or PVP (vs other players). Dont mix or you dilute it for both interest groups. If I want to test my mettle against real human players the AI matches will bore me once I recognize their shortcomings, and if I want to have PVE fun vs the AI there's always the chance of getting a live opponent which I might not feel comfortable with. Avoid this at all costs. If both PVP and AI matches are desired by the player base, make two different rankings for them so a player can pick the type of game he wants to play.
    Kalin, RattyZ and Mutak like this.
  14. RattyZ

    RattyZ Mushroom Warrior

    I'm with the side that wants it separate as much as possible.

    I love getting "free" chests from beating AI opponents, truly it makes me happy to achieve the chests faster, however that's just the loot mongering side of me.

    If you keep AI in the matchmaking, it makes the chests you earn worth less than if you had to earn them through other people, I think in the live version, try to avoid AI matchmaking as much as possible.
  15. Cysiu

    Cysiu Kobold

    I dont like that u get rating for playing AI it would be nice to have a rating for playing people and AI seperate.
    The rating against people should have some rewards and a weekly or monthly reset. Maybe a new shop and items only buyable for a new currency obtainable only from PVP.
    On the other hand rating against AI shouldnt ever reset and the AI should be more challenging so people didnt only play against AI to get easy the 20th win epic chest.
  16. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

    The AI is there for two purposes:
    1. To provide a simple opponent when you are a new player.
    2. To fill in the gaps when there aren't any other similar rated players online.
    As the player base grows, the AI should become less and less of a factor. The matchmaker only matches you against the AI if you are a new player or it can't find anyone else to play with a reasonably similar rating.
  17. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

    Is anyone using the new checkbox to avoid playing the AI (GM)?
  18. penda

    penda Mushroom Warrior

    Used it and longest I waited for was around 6-7 minutes.
  19. Mutak

    Mutak Goblin Champion

    I still think AI wins and losses should not affect rank for high-level competition, but maybe it should for playersunder 1000 or 500. That way people can learn and rank up to a level where they can find more human opponents, but not farm the AI.
  20. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

    Yeah, I'm sympathetic to that view, but I also don't want to punish players for having a high Elo (rating).

    Don't forget that the AI's rating goes up and down like a regular player's does. So if people are beating the AI, it's rating will drop and vice-versa.

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