Race balance discussion.. Again

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by SurgeonFish, May 6, 2013.

  1. Kligan

    Kligan Kobold

    And how about this: maybe give elfs a bit more moves that ignores hard terrain? Or a bit more cantrip moves? This will allow to better maneuver in a difficult conditions.
  2. Sayeth Aether

    Sayeth Aether Mushroom Warrior

    I think the issue at hand is that elves have too many move cards, it would really be helpful to have some cards who will have some utility to it (attachment chance to critical strike, for example on 5+ roll, backstab or something like that)
  3. Blindsight

    Blindsight Ogre

    Indeed... I didn't have an issue with Alet Zhav, but these damn war monkeys are really rocking my world at the moment. Outnumber, outmaneuver, out range and out damage me... Scamper ruins my day, not to mention I lose 90% of the die rolls so I can't even hit them. I have to stand in a corner and wait for randomness to help me. Any of my stall/get out of jail cards (like whirlwind enemies, or encumbers) don't work because they are just ducked, and then used against me.
  4. Hessian

    Hessian Orc Soldier

    I finished the campaign with all elf wizards.
    Also, I have a ranking over 1100 with the same party.

    Dwarves are slow. If they get close, we do the elvy thing and run away or use telekenises. Dwarves get hurt by lava just like everyone else. I thought elves were overpowered! lol
  5. Oberon

    Oberon Hydra

    Granted I've only been playing this since last week, I can't comment on the past builds.

    So one of the first things I struggled with at first is those turns where someone draws all moves/armors when you want attacks or spells. 3 humans, all packing skills that provide leadership, has significantly reduced that frustration. Plus leadership let's you instantly replace negative cards (except for traits) and toss that occasional weak card or card you don't want. Yes it costs a card, but often in these situations you'd end up wasting more than a card anyway. The team is just way more consistent, and able to dig the cards they need.
  6. Blindsight

    Blindsight Ogre

    I second this. Playing a mobile team it's pretty horrid when whole teams of enemies (specifically war monkeys!) can scamper right by you and locking you down. The only tactic you're left with is standing in a corner.
  7. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    In pre-beta versions, Elves had Scamper for their default Move card, so the devs have certainly thought of it. I can't find commentary at the moment, but I believe they said they're still thinking about the balance.
  8. SurgeonFish

    SurgeonFish Automaton Moderator Staff Member

    I think Scamper would be too much for elves.
  9. Blindsight

    Blindsight Ogre

    Yeah constant free move would be over the top, even if people seem to think Elves are behind the race...race.

    Perhaps a new move that's free move, but only for terrain tiles and not enemy threat areas? If not, that only really leaves only elf skill slot to give them any sort of move utility which numerically seems a little weak (or on the 'hope to god you draw one' side) but I'm not sure of the math behind it.
  10. Oberon

    Oberon Hydra

    Other than their special racial abilities, elf skills seem to only pull in cards that you get from boots.

    I've noticed that dwarven skills get interesting melee focused cards from a wider variety of sources; armor cards, blocks and parrys from shields, blind rage and others. they seem to offer more options.

    A similar approach could help Elf skills. To keep with the mobility theme, they could have move + attack cards instead. Or if dwarves are all about melee, elves could be magical and get some spells on their skills. Something other than just moves.
  11. Gnug315

    Gnug315 Mushroom Warrior

    Leadership is clearly overpowered imho.
  12. Rorre

    Rorre Orc Soldier

    I think it's the cards that elves fall behind on. They're mobile enough, but there's a serious opportunity cost on drawing moves. All to often, it just lets you get the elf clear and watch impotently while the rest of the party gets obliterated.

    There is a couple of Escaping Run, and Elvish Insight and Slippery both draw a card, but humans have their suite of card cyclers and dwarves have Toughness. Also Charge, which is mobility and attack (as an aside, why is charge not half red?).

    Imho, elves need more card advantage in their movement related elf-skills to keep up with the dwarves (the card advantage is clearly the human's thing). Either double-ups, like Hard To Pin Down, Dodge or Charge, or drawing skills like Escaping Run or preferably a new elf-specific move with an unconditional draw. It would probably be fine if this was just a Shuffle, call it something like "effortless" or "graceful".

    I'm aware that some of those cards already appear on elven racials, but I've been unlucky enough not to find any of them, and I think they could stand to be a little more common.
  13. Oberon

    Oberon Hydra

    Dwarves sort of get the biggest card drawer in the game, with Dwarven Battle Cry . Though this is only the case for an all dwarven party. Spend 1 card, and draw 3 cards. The good priest draw cards (ignoring marty's blessing or traits) all cost a card to draw 2 cards.

    Humans don't actually get card drawing, they get card filtering. They can spend a card to draw a card (maybe selecting from two), or spend a card to replace other cards, but they don't grant extra cards.
  14. SurgeonFish

    SurgeonFish Automaton Moderator Staff Member

    Leadership is an amazing card and shouldnt be ignorned. Discard a card to have all humans discard unwanted cards to redraw new cards (1 for 1 trade).
  15. Forduc

    Forduc Orc Soldier

    Don't forget Elvish Mobility. If you ever face warrior(s) they will curse it forever. Not to mention mages with wall of fire or acid.

    Then again, mobility advantage is something you have to actively take advantage (deck construction) while HP advantage is something that will always help regardless of what you do.
  16. Rorre

    Rorre Orc Soldier

    In theory or in practice? My frost/lava mages have been more frustrated by team pushes (Run, Team! etc). Elvish Mobility is shut down by encumberance 2, and also effects my elves - as in, effects elves opposing the user.
  17. Forduc

    Forduc Orc Soldier

    No practical experience, but it's seems like a very good card. And my no elf melee PvP team has felt severe frustration in one or two occasions.
  18. Adilor

    Adilor Kobold

    Elves need something more than mobility in their skills. So far, all I've seen for their skill slot is stuff that moves them around, and there's only so much movement one needs before it's excessive and diluting the attack cards.
  19. SurgeonFish

    SurgeonFish Automaton Moderator Staff Member

    elvish mobility has a chance to aid the enemy as well, so its not worth the chance
  20. Gnug315

    Gnug315 Mushroom Warrior

    Fwiw, I agree Elvish cards are lacking, and hugely so compared to the fantastic "All dwarves draw a card." Elvish mobility is pretty meh.

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