Questions about picking the right monster for the job.

Discussion in 'Custom Scenarios and Boards' started by Aldones, Nov 15, 2013.

  1. Aldones

    Aldones Ogre

    As I begin to explore more of this map editor, I'm noticing that maps don't just effect what monsters are appropriate on them, sometimes the monster can largely dictate what the map needs to be like as well. Entire ideas surrounding a specific trick that a monster is capable of doing begin to capture my imagination and before I know it, I've got a map concept that wouldn't probably work without them being included.

    So I'd like to ask a few questions about monster behavior and I'd like to see if anyone can make good recommendations. I'm sure some of you have learned that certain monsters work particularly well for certain tasks.

    1. What monster makes the best use of teleportation? I need something that will consistently ignore walls when moving.

    2. What are good monsters to chose when you need them to reliably be immovable?

    3. Is there an enemy that has WWE but not WW? Do enemies still use this attack when the board is shaped really weird, causing their portion to become isolated? I'm wondering if they would still use the ability when they're not in a position where you can threaten them.

    4. Is there an enemy that's well known for using a ton of those arcane Slide Back attacks?

    5. Are there any monsters who do something so unique, that you'd suggest trying them out for anything specific?
     
  2. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    1. Blinking Wisps and Ethereal Wisps have Teleport Self as their default move.
    2. Reinforced Doors and Stench Demon (Morvin the Malodorous) have Immovable as their default move.
     
    Aldones likes this.
  3. Aldones

    Aldones Ogre

    If I wanted something more dangerous than a door, would a Morvin minion group work out okay? I plan to spread them out for my idea to work, so I doubt they'd gang up too much. One attack apiece per turn probably wouldn't make them seem like anything more than slow firing turrets, which is definitely something I'd like to simulate.
     
  4. tuknir

    tuknir #3 in Spring PvP Season

    About 5 im a big fan of the praticed geomancer, blooming ground is really cool, try put 2 praticed geomancers togheter, or if your really mad 5! (diferent groups) and soon all map will be covered in acid/spikes/lava. btw they also have teleport others
     
  5. WhiteSorcerer

    WhiteSorcerer Guild Leader

    I'd like to know monsters that fit the support role, having a buff and healing focused decks.
     
  6. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    Goblin Shaman & Kobold Priest have heals and support, as does some of the mp ai characters. Depending if you want monsters or "heroes".
     
  7. tuknir

    tuknir #3 in Spring PvP Season

    the "mob" human priest. he have a deck full of heals, its a nice addition for a support type char
     
  8. Aldones

    Aldones Ogre

    I've been experimenting with ornithopters because I think their concept is awesome.
    The problem I'm now experiencing is that I can't seem to arrange them in such a way that they will approach my test party. They're just hiding in corners and playing defensively, when I really want them to be aggressive for the adventure I'm trying to build. It would be lame to just shove them up in front and put a wall behind them with the map I'm using, but I'm starting to fear that this is what it would take to get them to finally open fire on me. Their attack is range 2, and they're insisting on maintaining a range of 3. It's really self-defeating.
    Have you guys had any experience coaxing the more reluctant monsters into approaching an opponent? Does it have something to do with terrain, maybe? I'm starting to wonder if their pathing decisions are being confused when my design requires them to fire over a narrow barrier of impassable terrain.
     
  9. tuknir

    tuknir #3 in Spring PvP Season

    i think the problem is the AI,the setup of it. For example in ym map going bananas if you go near the ogre he will try atk you (even if he cant) and stop moving to the vp :|
     
  10. Aldones

    Aldones Ogre

    I saw the map you're talking about. You're saying he'd just scoot up to one of those windows and try to melee you through it? I wish my ornithopters had that kind of gumption. :/
     
  11. tuknir

    tuknir #3 in Spring PvP Season

    If i go near the wall he will leave the middle row and go to the left row,He just stops there and trys run to me to atk me, wasting his move cards.. if i stay in the row further away from him all goes well
     
  12. Aldones

    Aldones Ogre

    Would there be any point to giving him some invisible impassible terrain then? Might help keep him focused on moving forward, unless you want this stalling technique to be a legitimate strategy the player should exploit?
     
  13. tuknir

    tuknir #3 in Spring PvP Season

    i tryed make a double wall,but didnt fix the problem and reduced alot los...so dunno how to fix it
     
  14. Aldones

    Aldones Ogre

    Huh. How about this as an alternative... give the player team two doors, and place them just beyond the victory points in the monster's hallways. It might give them something tangible that they can focus their attention on, especially since the AI seems to sometimes make a mad rush for the VPs when it looks like you're threatening to stand on one yourself. The doors won't be able to actually do anything helpful, but the enemy AI probably won't know this.
     
    Flaxative likes this.
  15. tuknir

    tuknir #3 in Spring PvP Season

    actualy thats a good idea, going try it :)
     
    Flaxative likes this.
  16. Farbs

    Farbs Blue Manchu Staff Member

    Phaselock's recent wiki update should be immensely useful here.
    Check it out.
     
    Aldones and Pengw1n like this.
  17. WhiteSorcerer

    WhiteSorcerer Guild Leader

    Wow, nice!
     
  18. Yea that wiki update is great. I have wasted tons of time trying to figure out what cards each monster has.
     
  19. Aldones

    Aldones Ogre

    It solves about half my questions.

    Could you take a moment to address whether or not the other half of them are relevant?

    A Player Character's uniqueness has been described as a combination of their cards and their HP total. However, one could also say that a third component exists, the player.
    For monsters it's not so clear to me if the game is controlling certain monsters differently, giving them distinct behavior.

    It may be that the AI simply makes it's move based off of it's HP and current hand of cards, and that a monster with a weak strike and a single move card and X hit points will always do the same thing no matter what kind of monster it is.. but I've got a strong feeling that this may not be the case. Certain monsters definitely seem more prone to fleeing, or suicide rushes, camping a VP when I approach it, or maintaining a melee distance of 2, for examples.
    As a better example, I might describe a Trog as a monster that always tries to face me at a distance of 2, and will back off if I get too close, or back away after using all it's attacks. What I don't know for sure is whether or not this is something I should assume all monsters with the same hand and HP will do, or if that's something you've specifically coded the trogs to do.

    Can you tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree here, or do each monster type also have unique behavioral differences?
    Knowing this would make enemy selection much easier, either way, even if you don't want to tell me exactly how their decisions are calculated.
     
  20. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    The ai has set behaviour in preferred attack distance - that's the only setting I know exists for ai. There could be others of course, but preferred distance is the only thing I recalled being changed in a patch for a mob.
     

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