So we know about Dwarves, Humans, and Elves, along with Fighter, Wizard, and Priest, but what do we think the chances are of getting additional races or classes? More classes seems like a no-brainer. Thieves have already been mentioned, but I like the idea of a Spellblade fighter/wizard hybrid, or a Ranger with a bow and some nature- and trap-based cards. I think a Summoner could be very interesting, but probably difficult with the deck mechanic. I a As far as additional races, I do think the existing 3 offer a very good balance, but some others could be fun. Halflings are sort of an obvious choice, but what about something like a Half-Orc or Half-Giant, or something more fantastic like a Wood Sprite or Lizard-Man? I, for one, would be willing to have these races/classes part of the paid portion of the game. I'm itching for this game to come out so I can start throwing my money at it Weigh in on the poll and leave your thoughts!
I . . . want . . . HOBBITS. I know it won't happen. I still want it. Oh, and can I play as a gelatinous cube? Or are there even more reasons why that one won't work out?
We know the opponents have racial identities as Lizardmen, Mushrooms, etc. It is not hard to imagine some of the bipedal types, at least, being repurposed into playable characters. I think out of the poll choices the one that stands out to me is Sprite: a race that is inherently lucky/magical (possible bonuses) but just a little chaotic (possible drawbacks/challenges). I'm not sure about new classes, other than the presumed addition of Rogues to round out the basic cast. (Disclosure: I did vote for Druid on the poll.) Building our decks means Card Hunter classes are already highly flexible -- one Mage is all about the Fireballs and Inferno spells but a different Mage uses a spellbook full of Auras and Mind Control. I want to play the game first to get a feeling for the available repertoire; ideally (at least for me) a new class will bring something unique to the abilities and strategies of the party. As CH continues over time, they could raise the level cap and then suggestions for Pyromancer, Sniper, Unholy Summoner, etc. could become more attractive as advanced or prestige classes. Pretty much every specialization that has been previewed also has a counter designed for it. For example, low level characters can't easily survive when the opposition uses piercing weapons to negate an armor-heavy tanking strategy. But it might be that at higher levels you can specialize with enough strength to withstand the inevitable counter-deck.
I completely agree here. They have plans for rogues, and that's good. I like rogues. But thinking about adding any more now would be more trouble than it's worth. It'll be much better to see the game, play it, find out how the current classes play into their niches and THEN consider adding more classes if they seem appropriate. It could end up that the Wizard class can be a pyromancer, aquamancer, necromancer, druid, etc, etc without needing to add specific classes to fill those. In fact, I think that adding a class like pyromancer would be counter productive and go against the flexibility currently available in classes. I could see it as a prestige class somehow, but I don't know how that would play into multiplayer and work. Going back to new races -- I see nothing wrong with that, but it may still be too early to judge. I would love to see new races and mix and match (that was always a fun part of D&D for me. Especially doing crazy things like orcish sorcerers or gnomish barbarians), but only if it's viable to the games layout. If it ends up that 4 classes and 3 races is all we get, then so be it. I'll still be quite a happy camper.
Heh, yeah our thought process is pretty much as mightymushroom discussed. I think it's always better to start going crazy with variations once you have the core elements nailed down. We do have rogue on the radar and we're actively reserving certain cards for them (e.g. poison and backstabbing). In terms of other classes, we actually created a bunch of other hybrid classes that mix abilities (equipment and skill slots) from the basic classes. Those are fun, but we have to be a bit careful about the equivalent of Magic "color bleed". If you create an "Arcane Duellist" who can carry a sword and a staff, does that start to undermine what a Wizard and a Warrior are? I'm not sure. More races are easier to add since they have less impact than new classes. The main constraint at this time is the amount of new art needed, unless we reserve them to one class only. For example, if we added one new race, we'd need to create at least nine new figures (three for each class/race combo). That's a lot of art for such a small team. At this stage, we'd probably rather create nine new monster figures. All that said, I'm always interested to see what classes and races would be most popular.
It could work depending on how deep the "Color Bleed" is. I know in many video games that have multi-classing or many classes with similar abilities between classes, that the base major classes could not be outright replaced with hybrid heroes. I'm trying to think of an example of a game ive played, but its escaping me but i will make my own example. A good example would be like a "Spellsword" a melee who uses casting to increase his range when out of range or buff himself, he could use medium armor or heavy armor, but is locked out of some of the best armors given only to warriors or paladins because of his "Hybrid Tax" so to speak.
I've been a long fan of breaking class boundries. There are some other fairly basic reasons why class-mixes in this game shouldn't break the game, for example mixing ranged magic attacks and melee attacks means the character might be stuck at range with just melee attacks, or stuck in melee with just ranged attacks. Hybrid taxes are pretty much a given(can't expect the spellblade to wear the heaviest armors now can we?) As SurgeonFish says, can't expect them to fully replace a standard class in that role. A spellblade with less armor and less health than a warrior, could make up for it with some magic, he's not going to be as good a tank, but he could run in and get some good whacks when needed. Would be very reliant on movement cards I think. A ranger might also be armor-limited, could have some basic healing abilities, and of course the choice between swords and bows. I'm sure more hybrids can be fathomed, but the one most likely to be a danger of breaking the balance would be the "bishop" wizard/priest combo. Race-wise, both orc/half-orc and halfling/gnome have interesting possible applications. I'd expect the orcs/half-orcs to be quick and brawny but suffer some sort of drawbacks(ie: black card style), while halflings/gnomes would be limited by slow movement and being somewhat fragile, but having cunning tricks up their sleeves(good tricky cards, similarly to how humans have card manipulation). These cards would probably have to be very good to make up for having the drawbacks of both elf and dwarf. I'm sure more races could be thought up as well. The lizardman example could perhaps be an amphibious race, that can cross water easily. An apeman style race could perhaps ignore hindering bushes and trees in their movement. Undeads could have lifedrain abilities, and so on. I'm fully aware of the small-team workload though, so all this could be post-release add-on projects when time allows.
Not really sir, because said arcane duelist will never fling the most powerful spells, or tank the most damage or even deal more damage in H2H as a pure class warrior...simply a matter of feats. Arcane Duelist just gives you options and character flavor.
I don't think you can just say that. Because based on my understanding of Card Hunter's deck building system, the Arcane Duelist WOULD actually be able to do those things - since he would need those slots in order to be considered an Arcane Duelist. That said, I assume this would also mean they have fewer slots in other areas, so there should, in theory, always be a trade-off.
You would know better since I have no info on how deck building works for certain classes. However, talking quasi-4th edition, Arcane Duelists sacrifice power for flexibility.
Classes determine what type of gear you can equip; so far, the only restriction on how powerful is based on character level. There wouldn't be anything to distinguish a Melee Weapon Slot for a Pure Warrior from one for an Arcane Duelist. If they have the same level, they can use the same weapon. Same weapon = same cards = same abilities. Where the "hybrid tax" would come into play is to control the number of slots, e.g. Warrior: 2 Melee Weapons Duelist: 1 Melee, 1 Arcane Charm Mage: 2 Arcane Charms Hybrid classes that are just a split down the middle of existing defintions aren't very interesting to me. If you take Warrior+Mage or Duelist+Duelist, you gete 2 Melees and 2 Charms either way -- and you still have to rely on the luck of the draw to get them into play. On the other hand, the new class allows you take Warrior+Duelist: you would have 3 Melees and 1 Charm, a combination that's impossible without the hybrid. Is it "cheating" to get those Arcane cards without having a Mage, in the sense that it disrupts the balance among the original classes? Or is it just an option to give players finer control over their decks?
Oh, if there's a player level restriction available then it's even more interesting. For certain classes, you could define one side of it to be the off-class or splashed, and have that slot take half the player level (i.e. if you are level 10, the slot can only take up to level 5 instead). That way, you get some of the flavor and benefits without getting access to the same thing a dedicated class would.
Ahh....gotcha...then i would def says its balanced if a pure mage has 3 mage slots to the duelists one, the mage will always be the better mage. Or yeah, you could cap out the side classes lvl limit, restricting it to lower lvl equips. I would cap it more then 2 or 3 lvls below max though.
Having thought some more on the halfling/gnome option... how about increased hand size? They make up for having walk movement and elf hp, by having an additional card, giving them more flexibility by having additional options open to them at the same time. Likewise, when thinking of the orc/half-orc race, I'm thinking human movement, dwarf hp, and a mix of racial cards that are a mix of either attacks/damage boosters, and/or black cards(both could clog your hand, for example you could be stuck with something like a 3 damage vicious bite attack, or a rage black card that stops you from playing blocks). For hybrids I think I need a little bit more info on deck building before putting out too many specific solutions, but I'm sure they exist to make them both viable and balanced. But the key is probably in the slots that aren't weapon slots. IE: Armor, hats, jewelry, boots, etc.
My first post is a wall of text, GREETINGS FOLKS! Races have their own special cards in addition to the standard movement card they get, right...? Consider these rough ideas until more detailed information is revealed about the exact structure used. Fairy HP=Low Movement=Run Teleport Self: Long distance movement, ignores terrain & characters. Magic Dust: Play in reaction to a magic card regardless of where you are, increase or decrease range by 3. Diminutive Size: Auto-triggers when targeted by physical attacks, roll 5+ to dodge or take an additional 2 damage and suffer knockback 1. Auto-Golem HP=High Movement=Walk Anti-Rune Engine: Roll 3 to Block when magic targets you. Not usable against lightning-based magic. Extendo-Arms: Play with a card that has range 1, increase range by 1. Low Battery: Auto-triggers when drawn, cannot play cards this turn. Restore 2 HP when discarded. A better understanding of the equipment system would definitely help with thinking out new classes... That said, some things are pretty obvious as others have already pointed out. Create your Pyromancer by focusing on fire based equipment. Druids utilize nature centric themes. Perhaps there should be a way to transmute equipment or keywords into those that you want through the expenditure of cash or special rare crystals found throughout the game? One cool way to make this less of an issue is by appeasing us visually. It sounds like launch will only contain two figures (male and female) for each race/class combination... but creating new figurines with specific themes would be pleasing. Fiery elf wizards, samurai human fighters, troll slayer dwarf fighters, etc... Beyond all of that... perhaps at a certain level you could "Promote" a character to a specialized class. Instead of making this new class really complex with special equipment slots or static bonuses or whatever... it could just be that the character's deck is now permanently outfitted with 4 or 5 cards to represent the specialized training. I really want a summoner class or summoning equipment of some kind. Perhaps each party may only have one summon at a time. The mechanics might go like so; The Energy Gauntlet gives only two cards, the Summoning Gate and Energy Punch. Summoning Gate allows the wizard to summon an Energy Demon and, at the time of using the card, to sacrifice any number of cards in his hand (excluding movement). Each card sacrificed gives the Energy Demon an additional card for his personal hand (which are specific to the demon, he doesn't get a copy of the card sacrificed). The foundation of the Energy Demon is two cards plus additional cards via sacrifice plus a standard movement card. Unlike normal characters he doesn't draw new cards, his hand cannot be manipulated, he doesn't discard down to 2 cards at the end of the turn and he can only play one card per turn not counting his movement card. Could be awesome. Perhaps a Bone Staff has Animate Dead and does a similar thing only it brings to the battlefield two skeletons and one zombie, all very fragile but useful for stopping folks or wasting their turns.
MacLeod, you have an interesting proposal for summoned creatures, and I agree with only one summons at a time. It would be difficult to balance a scenario for a non-summoning party of three and still have it work for a group of necromancers with an army of skeletons. For the same reason, definitely the creatures summoned need to be fragile/limited, not game winners. With what we just learned about card attachments, I'm thinking perhaps a time limit could apply by attaching the summons for 1-3 rounds depending on its strength rating. I'm not sure about sacrificing one's own cards to power up the summons's hand, but it's an idea to think about. Also, from what I understand, (playable) races have several card suites at various power levels that correspond to unique racial skills. You can equip and un-equip skills in a way similar to gear, but there's no info yet on how many we have to think up for a viable new race.
Agreed. That is why my original proposal includes a very limited duration for the summon. As a default, you'd only get that Energy Demon for two turns (one card per round, begins with only two cards) but with sacrifice you can turn your entire hand into additional rounds for the Energy Demon. This seems like it would be a big trade off. Likely, you have tried to include good cards in your deck so burning them for the demon should be a choice with some satisfying weight to it. Also, since you only draw two cards at the beginning of the round... losing all or most of your cards in a single turn could create a pretty slow build of momentum for that wizard. This is definitely something I would like more specific information about. Is there a "racial ability" slot where you can put in different levels of racial aptitude? (Human Adaptability Level 4, Elven Lore Level 7, etc...) If so, that would make my Promotion idea some kind of precedence at least. You could call it the Expertise Slot unlocked at a specific Level. The slot would be filled with such things as Dragoon Knight (jump attack!), Dark Knight (magic hexes for fighters and long range melee attacks!?) and other such fun things. Each of those things could be represented with Tomes or Emblems or some such thing. Man, my own ideas are pumping me up even further for this game!!! @_@
