Let's talk about: Game Difficulty!

I really like the diffictulty till now! Well my heroes are only level 6 (almost 7) so I haven't played every single map yet!
But I really like the challenge, especially that you have to beat 2-5 maps or something to complete an adventure and if you fail completly you have to do it all over again! Reminds me of some old games
And it's still more forgiving, then other games , because you're heroes don't die forever! You're kinda forced to learn the game, new strategies, effects of cards to beat harder maps, even though it can be frustrating, if you're just out of luck

I also like the idea of having Gary giving you tips, because I'd give my party some tips as a gamemaster, when I'm aware of them struggling!

 

My first playthrough was easier than of most people - I grabbed few additional items and went through the singleplayer without bigger issues, altough there always are certain maps where you will fail at least once if you aren't aware of the challenge awaiting for you. I'd say biggest challenge in beta for me, was in fact, Diamonds of the Kobolds and obviously Black Oaken Heart (the 'final' adventure, as many prefer to call it). I've learned the basics with extra 'helpful' hand on my side (better items than I would have). Afterwards on my 2nd playthrough, on my own this time I haven't had any issues as I already knew the game very well and despite lack of gear - I knew what was going to happen. That being said, surely dwarves fulfill lack of gear (in most cases) the best.

I haven't played with standard party (warrior, warrior, mage; warrior, warrior, cleric from lvl10+) thus my opinion may differ. I find the difficulty more enjoyable than I would like to describe it (altough resistant hide and lighting immunity irritates me every single time I've had my mage get it against those sparky sparky boys!)

 

The last battle in the wizards tower was really difficult at first, but then I played thought the eirlier quests the next day and triumphed.

I would suggest taking away one of the bronze robots armors though, i felt like he drew into to many of those.

 

Oh yes! The second time I played this map...he had three of those armors almost all the time (even though he had to discard one of them) - only ~10% of my attacks were able to deal damage to him and he was killing my heroes with
his insane damage!
The first/third time..he didn't draw that much armor and it was quite a challenge, but not impossible

 

I was aware og penetration cards. I have grown to treasure them because of that level.

 

And THAT is level design for you. I analyzed this to death in a previous build: you learn how to play the game at all, then you learn "some enemies have armor" (or you die), "some enemies keep you at range 2" (or you die), "some enemies can ignore terrain while you can't" (or you die), and so on for the entire gamut of challenges the designers can throw at you. You learn, you prepare, and if the game difficulty is good then eventually you triumph.

As to the main thread here . . . Pengw1n, I think you said most everything I would say. I imagine proper "here's why you lost" text from Gary would be incredibly difficult to program, as you have to define "ways to lose" in words a computer can understand. Instead, perhaps a single thorough explanation when the player first loses (on a non-tutorial level): "Argh, you lost! Okay, let's talk about that." Gary could explicitly say this game is not intended to be casual, and maybe summarize your own post ("lack of loot, lack of proper strategy, and bad luck") to encourage players to analyze the situation themselves.

 

I think the game difficulty is perfect and that only a few mobs or certain maps need a slight fix

 

My experience so far.

Level 5 Adventures
I managed to get my party up to level 5. (Dwarf Warrior, Elf Wizard, Human Priest) At this point I gave the two level five dungeons some attempts.

Slub'Gut's Sanctum - I could get nowhere on the first map. Tried a few times. Gave up, figuring I didn't have the gear.
Rescue From Shieldhaven Prison - Did fine until map 3 (Prison Dog Yard). I must have given this map about half dozen attempts. Finally gave up on this map as well.

Drop Elf Wizard From Party
At this point I dropped off the Elf Wizard and picked up a Human Wizard. With this change I completed the no party deaths of the following dungeons:

Caverns of the Trogolodytes
Lair of the Trog Wizard
The Wizard's Workshop

The low level content became unlocked (is that due to a timer or because I had a level 1 in the party?). I waltzed through the 1-4 content with my new party. This really increased my loot pool I finally started to get trait cards. I basically had no trait cards to work when I hit level 5 with the first party build.

Return to Level 5 Adventures
Now with a better selection of items, my human wizard up to level 5, and a good number of trait cards for each member I attempted, Rescue From Shieldhaven Prison.

I managed to defeat the Prison Dog Yard map. Although I still had to attempt it a couple times. Seems the only strategy is to throw as much damage as possible regardless of friendly fire... Firestorm

The next map (Prison Catacombs) also gave me the fits. I had to restart the adventure due to failing on this map. Not sure how I managed to best it. I attempted to move left first on my successful attempt. I really hate dogs at this point. After besting this map I finished the adventure with ease.

Infamous Mention
There is one other map that is quite difficult in the level 4 range and that is the Slime Tunnels in the Dungeon of the Lizard Priest. I did managed to best this map with my original party but it took many tries. I gave it a couple attempts on no party deaths with my new setup but have been unable to complete it thus far. (Warrior 6, Priest 6, Wizard 5)

Thoughts
At this point in the game I don't really feel like I have enough loot to really setup different types of decks. Also at this stage distance of mobility seems pretty much useless on most maps because they are often small. Most mobs seem to have run or better cards. The dash card for elves seem useless or overkill thus far. An Elf Warrior with Dash might be interesting once Heavy Armor is available.

More later
Going to throw the new party at Slub'Gut's Sanctum and see how it rolls.

 

first off...i really like the challenge and tinkering about with deckbuilding strategy and i dont mind restarting a few times...heck i will change up my strat and see if it works....
that beeing said....dogs are awful...they start off with only 4+ attacks and most of them have extreme steps included(i remember a step 3 with 6-7 dmg)
two of them can easily kill any of my guys and you first encounter them in a level 2 or 3 dungeon
agreed my elves are probably the worst to fight dogs...since their mobility does not help a bit...against step 3 attacks...but even against dwarves those beasties hurt like hell and there is not much you can do about it...well apart from trying to kill them real fast
shieldhaven is a good example of that...you first fight i believe 5 or 6 dogs and then 3 dogs and 3 guards who have you surrounded on a small map
anyway...ill rework my build and then i will kill the **** out of them....i really want to finish that adventure....i want to know what happens with that delivery girl^^

 

TL;DR

I was trying to bite my lip about progression. I am also not very far into the game so some of this may already exist. Progression by replaying content can work, but it needs to stay fresh. For me, fresh replay is tied tightly to randomizing map features and layout. Card Hunter has done some things right in my book, but needs to add some of the randomized features listed below. Or at least need to add a couple more adventures per level.

The Ramblings

I was trying to bite my lip about progression. In my book required replay of content for progression needs a few features to be done right. A game runs the risk of feeling like most mobile device games... cheap. Or worse, the game feels like a second job due to boring repeated tasks. Many of today's mmo titles fall into the second job category, regardless of genre. At the same time requiring the replay of content is an age old system inherit to gaming. If you move to fast in most old console rpgs you may have to spend some time leveling or doing side quests. Metroid is perhaps the Queen of backtracking, although many Castlevania games also make heavy use of backtracking.

I still feel that I need to further explore Card Hunter and give it more time to fully find my bearings on the subject. That said, my initial response is that they have done some things right, but there is room for improvement. I am also not very far into the game so some of this may already exist.

The good

• You can replay adventures you enjoyed. Or beat your head against extremely difficult ones, some people like that . Over the years I've lost any sense of accomplishment with system that feel like they artificially draw things out, like difficulty settings that give mobs more health.
• Loot randomization is strong. (Picked up a great epic replying a level 1 adventure while leveling up my human wizard)
• Individual map combat and strategy is mostly fresh and different thanks the random card draw.
• Story. There is a short back story to every adventure. Story helps prevent the feel of killing nameless mobs in some nameless area in order to level your characters to kill more nameless mobs in some other nameless area. However, story has its limits and will only work for a while

The Gray

• Quests. These could help keep content replay fresh by tweaking various conditions. I find the current conditions and attribute tweaks, for the most part, rather dull.

The bad

• No randomization of mobs. I completely understand this from a story perspective. However, once an adventure has been completed the following options would make for much more interesting reply of content. Obviously these have the potential to be completely unbalanced. Although, on some maps this already happens with extremely poor draws that happen two or three times in a row. Since it is a quest I wouldn't mind the occasional unbalanced map that happens by chance.
  • Random mob placement
  • Random mob types (which fit the theme of the adventure)
  • Player made adventures as side adventures / quests!
• No randomization of map layout. This is a big one for me, I the feel of exploration. New and different maps are key to exploration. Card Hunter is a perfect ecosystem for randomized map content and map layouts, primarily due to asset simplicity. Obviously not all adventures would work well with randomizing map layout. However, randomizing map contents would work (ala difficult terrain or traps in different places. Hey, even evil overloads and minions need a change of scenery, "the guillotine will catch more light from the hell portal if we place it in this corner"). Outdoor adventures are perhaps the best candidates for randomized layouts, although some labyrinth type adventures could work.
  • Randomized map content. Shuffle around difficult terrain and other map features. The layout is the same but the contents within are randomized.
  • Randomized map layout. This is a completely random map based on a theme. Map content is also randomized or combines a number of connected templates
  • Player made adventures as side adventures / quests!

The Other
Obviously I don't know the budget, engine limitations, or current developer sanity levels. Random map layouts may have been crazy enough. I'm going to suggest a couple other items that could help keep replay fresh. I really hope traps already exist or are at least planned.

• Randomly victory point areas as a quest option.
• Moving victory point areas at the start of a round.
• Moving trap features, like a straight route across the map where boulders roll across the map. *Dreams of pushing mob into the path of the boulder*
  (On a side note I was completely disappointed I could not use Telekinesis to move a mob onto a Hot Spot)
• Player created adventures and/or quests. This has basically unlimited creative potential and would provide new map layouts and stories as long as there was a strong community.
  (Neverwinter is going this route)

The Summary
Progression by replaying content can work, but it needs to stay fresh. For me, fresh replay is tied tightly to randomizing map features. Card Hunter has done some things right in my book, but needs to add some of the randomized features listed above OR add more than 2/3 adventures per level.

[Edits]
Fixing and cleaning up stuff.

 

You never or only at 1 level have to replay a adventure to progress as far as i know

 

For a big hunkering demon perhaps. However, that was not my experience. We can discuss why that is so, but it doesn't change my experience of replying content to progress.

 

I have found the difficulty so far to be fairly spot on, haven't done any level 6 dungeons yet but the ones under 5 were all pretty good. I learnt fairly quickly that your strategies need to vary wildly depending on enemy types. Lots of movement and piercing against Trogs, piercing for Golems, hard to block for Goblins & Kobolds, anything but bludgeons on that damnable black ooze. And endearing hatred for Lizardmen Netters.
That being said having Gary point out that you might need to visit a store and change up your kit after the first time you completely fail a mission wouldn't be obtrusive or change that dynamic. Repeated fails he gives you hints about how this enemy type plays?

 

@Dark Wolfe, I await the moment you get hit with 11 damage attack followed by 7 damage penetrating, step attack, from an enemy with 8 cards in hand and no attack limit because they're boss level enemies.

And unless you've got a full block or Parry, that's one character dead.

 

When I said fairly spot on I didn't say I've not had trouble. Bronze Golem tore me to shreds and I've failed massively against the Goblin Hulk before. We are discussing whether or not the problem was my cards, strategies and luck, or if the difficulties where to high. It's a personal thing, but I don't think the difficulty is too high, I think there is no one powerful strategy to get through the entire game without ever mixing it up. and I like that

 

I'm curious about this. I have no trouble with slow moving mobs. It is fast mobs which cannot be avoided that give me the most trouble.