First impressions thread

Discussion in 'Card Hunter General Chat' started by Jon, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. I just started playing and the game seems to work really well (it's lots of fun), but I thought I would share some random impressions. This is really minor, but I didn't understand in the first tutorial mission that the kobold in the larder was part of a larger raid and I was really confused why there were sounds of battle in the background. I thought it was just one guy who had a kobold problem. Later on I couldn't find a robe to buy in the level one store (before I unlocked kyburz) and was saddened that I had to keep my wizard using cloth armor cards. I don't know how random the store inventory is, but it would be nice if you always had one item of the types you unlock early.

    Finally the AI in some instances didn't work that well. I noticed it especially with the goblin priest in the highway robbery adventure. He would often use the ability that gave a minion another action, but that minion wouldn't attack again. Another time he used a 4-point heal on a goblin that had only taken 1 damage. The AI seems pretty challenging most of the time (it's good at moving trogs out of range of melee and such), but when it makes obvious errors like that it takes you out of the game. It would probably be better for the AI to discard extra action cards instead of using them without any effect, because the player won't have to wonder what the AI is thinking. Again, the difficulty isn't a problem (this game is plenty hard) but the AI needs to avoid making obvious errors.
  2. Fixer

    Fixer Kobold

    My first impression started out beautifully, until I finished the tutorial and started fighting Trogs.
    There was a small element of humor to everything. I like Gary. I appreciate the way the inventory/equipment screen is set up. I had fun managing my potential cards. I'm pleased that I'm able to name my characters however I want. The tutorial does a pretty good job of explaining everything to me.
    Unfortunately, my problem stands with the gameplay itself. Most of my cards, on both my priest and warrior, have a range of one space. That's all well and good, but I realized that some of the Trogs I'm fighting have a range of 2 spaces. They also move in groups. Every time I move my Warrior into attack range, they ALL move out of my attack range. This leaves my other characters behind, one or two turns away. This also leaves my Warrior unable to attack, meaning I have to use another move card, or pass and let them hit me. In the event that I managed to get my Warrior next to one, they also have armor in the form of "thick skin". This armor reduces my damage by at least half, if not more. There's a roll on it every single time I attack them, giving me a 50/50 chance at best to deal full damage. Meanwhile, I take full damage from every attack. Healing cards help somewhat, but using one ends my turn; leaving my Warrior with 2 additional health but still in range of their attacks. I didn't bother with Frenzy or any other kind of support cards, since they had a duration (during which I could not guarantee I'd even be able to attack) and using one ended my turn (letting the enemies get another hit in, get in range to hit me, or run just outside my attack range. My elven wizard seemed to be the only character that was worth anything, but unfortunately she's a glass cannon, and her attacks have roughly the same range as the Trogs.
    Then there are the times that I get all blocks, or all movement cards. Getting a full hand of attack cards is always nice, considering I can't move, block, or use any of them. It's not a problem on it's own, since the hands are supposed to be random. It's a problem in the current state of the game, when it's already nigh impossible to get or stay within attack range of the enemies. I really don't like it when I spend 3 turns trying to get next to a Trog or a Kobold, only to get a full hand of blocks, or a ton of movement cards when he's standing right next to me, smacking me upside the head with attack cards. It's also incredibly frustrating when they're just outside of my attack range taking potshots at me, and I'm given no blocks or movement cards. The random element that would normally keep a battle interesting instead serves to make a frustrating experience intolerable.
    I gave up when I started the round that had 5 enemies, all in the same group, with 2-space attack range, and two armor cards that never left their hand. I managed to get next to one by a stroke of luck, only to deal zero damage when both thick skin cards rolled successfully. At that point, two had taken a couple points of damage, and all of my heroes had 1 health left.

    PLEASE STOP GROUPING THE ENEMIES TOGETHER. Nothing has been more annoying than watching the computer move all the enemies at once, when I can only move one character at a time. It allows the computer to end every turn outside of my attack range, or alternatively, to bum-rush me with three or four enemies at once. Since I cannot move the same way, I cannot keep my group together, nor can I get/keep any of my characters into attack range. It also allows the enemies to stack their hands with multiple instances of "Thick Skin". Since it's a racial card, there's one in the deck for every Trog. They don't get discarded, so it's possible for them to double or even triple up, and that doesn't even count the block cards or any armor they may be wearing. It even gives them all access to the 2-space attack. I don't know if every Trog in the group is equipped with a 2-space weapon, or if they all share access to the 2-space attack card that one Trog's weapon gives them, but it's killing me regardless.

    If the Trogs all get to move as a group, please at least let me play one card from each of my characters before you give the Trog Collective their turn.
    I don't think it's even a card balance problem here, it's a fundamental flaw in the gameplay. I'm not asking you to make the game easy, I'm asking you to make it playable. As is, no amount of tactical skill can get around this issue.
  3. skip_intro

    skip_intro Ogre

    The Trog Caves should have a thread all to itself. The first entry should be "If you're reading this, you need to level. Ignore the Caves until you've done some other modules. Get some ranged loot / better blocks / armour. Come back later." :)
  4. Ryuuji

    Ryuuji Orc Soldier

    Actually it does. Just skip the Trogs for now as they are considered very challenging more so than the next dungeon so just do that and come back with some better equipement and the trogs arent that hard anymore . Will be balanced some time in the future.
  5. Hallas

    Hallas Mushroom Warrior

    Although I'm not officially in the beta yet, I've been given some special sharing privileges from one who is. I've been playing for most of this week and thought I had a good enough sense about the game to make a critique.


    Right away the art style makes a huge impact. I think it's perfectly suited for the theme. The color palette is crisp and bright, without being "too" cartoony. As far as attention to detail goes, I had my mind blown that the character figures (in the deck builder screens) actually had little paper tabs so they could fit into their stands. Keep doing this. The more I feel like this is an actual board game and not some flash wizardry, the more special and unique this game will feel. The animation and effects only help bring the board game feel to life.

    Having cards associated with gear is a very innovative (at least to me) idea that really makes finding and gathering loot fun. At first, I was really able to use almost any build but the higher up in levels you go, you may have to make adjustments to better suit the enemy. Having a large stockpile of treasure helps in the flexibility! After I advance a level, I usually take a little break to refine my builds and take a look at the shops. It's a good downtime. The one thing I would probably like to have here is a way to save your builds or somehow access recent ones. For another idea, maybe an undo all button to revert any changes made since entering the deck builder to be reverted back to what you came in with. Sorting could be made a little nicer by putting

    Boy, do I love opening those chests. Even for just passing one stage of an adventure. It is RIDICULOUSLY gratifying for me. I can't wait to have my own account to amass my own treasure hoard! I think using treasure items instead of plain gold is a great idea and encourages me to visit the shop more often.


    The game needs some form of downtime or mini-game or something that doesn't involve the repeating of adventures. I know there's multiplayer, but besides that. The quests are neat (and quite hard!), but again, it just involves repeating the adventure. I'm not sure what I can suggest here, but having a little more something to add to the variety of things to do would be nice. Maybe a little mini-game of some sort that would provide small rewards when completing. This could help when starting out to make progression easier

    It's been said a million times, but there are some adventures that seem very difficult, even when attempting to build accordingly. I've found Trogs to be easy to deal with when built correctly (heavy ranged or at least penetrating items), but when going against enemies that largely focus on ranged, it can be a huge pain to advance and cut them off. I usually flank as much as I can so that I can trap the enemy, but so many priest tactics rely on staying together that my team gets widdled down much easier. However, the difficulty may be just right in some cases, as players just haven't learned the best way of dealing with the types of challenges they face. Beta has been around for not even a month and there's a lot of skill that the majority of the player base doesn't have so far.

    Overall, Card Hunter is looking great. I know there's a lot of rebalancing going on which is good to hear. As this is just a first impression thread, I'll post other thoughts as they come up in other threads!
  6. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    You know, as a sort of "third impression," I've come to appreciate the "mob psychology." I have a harder strategic time with lone enemies than with mobs in most situations.

    Lone enemies can have four copies of a 10+ damage card and use them all on you. Mob members can be forced to attack one at a time, use up their one "awesome attack" for that character, and then become helpless.

    This goes completely out the window when the designers set it up so that, yes, a mob can attack you all at once. But the fact that strategy differs so much from case to case is another point in favor of the game.
  7. Piratecat

    Piratecat Blue Manchu

    Having played it back when mobs didn't move all at once, I'm quite fond of mobs that maneuver in unison. This should not be interpreted as "Kevin is quite fond of troglodytes all sticking him in the belly with spears over and over again," which is a different story. :D
  8. tangmcgame

    tangmcgame Mushroom Warrior

    I like the mob moving as one, I just wish they didn't draw so damn many movement cards (well, all cards, really) or maybe had a group limit on movement cards per turn. It's no big deal on melee enemies but it can get silly trying to engage ranged.
  9. Piratecat

    Piratecat Blue Manchu

    It's worth noting that as mobs lose members, they draw fewer cards.
  10. MrMojoRisin

    MrMojoRisin Goblin Champion

    Wow, I never realized that in the little bit of time I got to play the game. That's pretty cool. Then again, everything about this game is pretty cool, and by "pretty cool" I mean REALLY FREAKIN AMAZINGLY cool.
  11. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    Whoops, I'm in the beta - although on a limited timer, as part of this week's recipient of Wolzarg's Uplift Iniative.

    I was reluctant to actually do this, but the temptation grew too strong - especially when I even got offered to try it out, without asking for it. Was afraid that playing an account with a huge amount of loot and unlocks would cloud my impressions and enjoyment of the game - and that I even might have seen to many videos and read to many beta diaries to actually not feel slightly "over it". Well, I was wrong.

    Grahphics & art assets: As have been said basically everywhere, art is gorgeous. I was stunned when I heard it was the same artist responsible for Freedom Force, because I loved that game - and I came here not knowing that. Crazy coincidence! Some of the avatar switches feels a bit off - elven priest has a sword, human warrior looks like a way to evil Frazetta badass (that must be the inspiration right?) - while very cool, doesn't look like a warrior hero rather than a monster. Also, lack of gender picks, and all very Kaukasian looks - even for the nonhumans could use a bit of a switchup. While a very white and pasty nerd myself, all players don't look like me!

    Difficulty curve: I started the first tutorial mission with 3 green characters rather than one (as it wasn't the actual tutorial), so they were all lvl 2 for the Trogs using only the funds and items I had available from my own playing. Lair of the Trog Wizard was a pain in the donkey area, completed on 3rd attempt - with a party that was slightly overleved compared to normal ones (with regards to tutorial situation). Seen that BM's done some changes next build, so might not be as much of an issue anymore. Wizard's Workshop isn't THAT much easier, also beat it on 3rd attempt - would have been simpler if I had more ways to remove armor, but that would have been more easily rectifyable than any kind of Trog issues - more a matter of switching in/out some items I probably had.

    Loot: Getting loot is fun, awesome and all that - but getting items I can't even equip, and lacking any kind of info or feedback when I can actually use them is a bit backwards. Some people don't understand why they can't use a lvl 1 helmet - especially as no helmet slot actually exists anywhere. This probably matters most in the beginning when loot is scarce and every item matters. One suggestion would be having all the inventory slots visible, but locked with a padlock ("unlocks at lvl x") - gives people a better understanding on what's going on, rather than "Oh, cool new slot... " when they level up. Especially good for the more casual crowd that don't do wikihunting et c. Also, if possible - maybe limit the loot pool at the start for better progress (i e no helmets, robes et c before anyone has use for them). Also, forgetting to pickup loot and leaving the screen - ugh, I've read about it - and still I managed to do it!

    UI: As a new player on an old account - I went to The Pig and Hart to get myself a brand new party to experience the game the most proper way, not being able to empty a party was slightly annoying. The same could be said for scrolling through all the varied classes - a better race/class selection system could be useful (first selecting a tab with a race, then selecting class - rather than pressing 10 times to get an elf wizard et c - or possibly just more visible tabs!). Another issue was after recruiting my third party member, I returned to Startington Keep to see my second character was missing. The first and third one was still there - but the second one wound up at the bottom of the character stack for some weird (bug-related?) reason. Having to click through a stack of characters using the tab system is a real pain (esp since Wozarg has an insane amount), would be nice to have a filter of sorts - searchable by name, level order et c. Also, I know it's been suggested loadouts was saveable - would be great! Please add the possibility to name a Party Loadout (i e not only single character equips, but for a full party - where a diff char can have diff loadouts in diff parties) with a customizable name - like "Dragonslayers" (for the time you need one of those), "Multiplayer Test" or "The Order of Badassery" for those more poetically inclined. Naming stuff is important bizniz to players! Also, I like the idea of having a vp star system with smaller stars, or possibly a more numerical solution as someone brought up in Zalminen's beta diary thread - it looks clunkier and clunkier the more stars needed to win, not so much during the first few missions. Another suggestion is that having player names, and party member names different colours in the combat log - very minor, but still wouldn't hurt. Also, discarding cards - possible to add an option that have you select all cards you want discarded from your whole party and press a button rather than clicking every card, it seems this animation can cause some lag. Might help if they're all discarded at once?

    Hope this doesn't come across negative in any way - this is feedback, not critique - I love the game! This is based on making it to lvl 4 and beating all the lvl 2 and 3 adventures.
  12. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

    I really like this suggestion.
    Wozarg likes this.
  13. Zalminen

    Zalminen Hydra

    That padlock idea would also have an additional advantage: knowing better what items to keep and what to sell.
    I already made the mistake of selling a good weapon just because I found a slightly better weapon - and then facepalmed when the next level up unlocked a second weapon slot!

    Actually there's a similar problem with the talents.
    I haven't received any talents yet but the shops already sell items requiring one or even two talents and if I wasn't reading the forums I would have no idea if I'd be getting my first talent during the next level up or five levels from now.
    Or even how many talents it's possible to get in total.
  14. feign

    feign Kobold

    First day, 1st play.

    I think if you were aiming for a Descent (boardgame, not videogame) feel to the immediacy and crispness of the dungeon crawling play, you nailed it good and proper.

    I think the tutorial could probably do with covering the mouse-over ability for reviewing movement and attack range, as you did that well in one of the development diaries I seem to remember, but i was stumbling a bit trying to get it to do waht I wanted for each spell. I also think that showing a pop-up example for movement rules when they're first explained may help them be immediately apparent for the wider main launch audience, that is people who';ve not been following your ecvery breath for months, like us.

    I'm fine with the monster choice being low early on in teh game - though maybe a few more "beasts" such as wolves or spider packs, would help to change it up, without you having to give up the cooler monsters you;re keeping for later!

    I think the splash screens when starting an adventure, looking like an old AD&D scenario, is just perfect and shows you really understand your audience, because whether everyone comes from a Board game/ RPG or just videogame background, referencing the things that are important to how the game works, makes us all will for your success, because those same totems were important to us!

    I like the idea of showing slots locked, but there's also something to be said for having the initial character sheet looking as clean as possible. Maybe adding a on/off button to allow showing that once the warrior hits level 2, as that ties in with 2you just unlocked your 1st additional equipment slot, if you wnat to be able to see when other slots and talents unlock, you can use this tool"

    As said above, having some general approximate timer on when exhausted adventures respawn would be good, but maybe something very simple like "all adventures respawn at midnight NZ time (or "midnight at Ozwald the weak's local deli, which as happenstance would ahve, si the same timezone as Christchurch, NZ" or somesuch!)

    Very much enjoying it, I'll post again when I play through a bit more.

    Oh, I forgot to add, I clicked on the Multiplayer button at the bottom right, and the screen just went to a green baise bakground and the web-page tab just hung (Chrome browser, up-to-date). I had to reload and relogin. 2nd time I tried, it did work, but I'm guessing that will be getting some love soon, at least visually and having a tutorial walking through setting up group or pvp.
  15. MrKaralis

    MrKaralis Mushroom Warrior

    I'm in beta too!
    Did the tutorial and with some pain defeated even the trogg wizard (just repeated it one time with two lvl2 and a lvl1 characther)
    Please keep the game a bit hard, wouldn't be very fun to do thing easily.
  16. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    They actually nerfed the last Trog wiz encounter - likely before you played it, removed one extra trog. I guess you can see why some people had trouble with it.
  17. bazzaman

    bazzaman Mushroom Warrior

    conrats on getting keys guys
  18. MrKaralis

    MrKaralis Mushroom Warrior

    TY, there's a suggestion topic?
  19. Scyrax

    Scyrax Mushroom Warrior

    I believe this entire sub forum can be used for suggestions.
  20. jjgw

    jjgw Kobold

    What strikes you first when you play the game?
    Building the decks with the equipment is an interesting approach, and it really fits the theme.

    What's your overall impression?
    Overall the game is fun, but it really feels very random. At times it mostly feels like the luck of the draw, to the point where some maps seem impossible unless you're really lucky.

    What do you find confusing?
    Blocks seem wonky. Seems like they don't trigger even though the enemy is facing.

    What needs more work?
    Too much junk treasure; more of the stuff you can sell for gold instead of useless items that I need to look at first.

    What do you find appealing about the game?
    It looks like a fun card game implementation of fantasy RPGs.

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