[Feedback] Oozeball Balance Changes

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by Stexe, Jun 11, 2014.

  1. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    After playing the new changes on live it still seems a bit problematic, especially with people blocking the VP spots.

    I'd suggest reducing the victory points required to 2.

    Fix the starting positions of the slimes -- having them start far apart seems like a much stronger position since one can make pushing changes easier (granted it is a bit reliant on card draw too, but having the players start at the same spot each game seems better).

    The cone push doesn't make a "hitting" sound from what I recall.

    Also, is there a way to tag figures with "scores victory point for enemy"? That way you could tag the enemy slimes with "scores for enemy" if they are on the VP spot. That would heavily prevent the dominant strategy of just blocking the VP spot with your slime figure and passing to run the clock out.
  2. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    That would be smart!
  3. Inkfingers

    Inkfingers Thaumaturge

    Interestingly, I would see part of the play there trying to force your opponents ON to the VP, to make them spend moves getting off, or give you a VP at the end of the round. Donno if that's what we want, but that's what'd probably happen.

    The idea of making terrain count as different types for different teams is interesting to me, though - you could have a map where your half of the map counted as open terrain, but your opponent's half counted as difficult terrain with a line of VPs at the far side - a kind of "Capture the flag" setup.

    Really, I think the best solution is just giving the game a 15 minute clock. Every time I've seen a timeout, SOMEONE's been at 2 vp and just one good turn away from another.
  4. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Ya, it might be weird to have counter objectives of pushing the enemy on the VP spot. That could be problematic.

    I've talked to Jon about other terrain types and special things (like VP locations that can only be scored by 1 team or VP spots that give 1 VP per person on them) but it would require a lot of development work for little gain. Yes, it would open up a lot of new map types and such, but the dev time it would cost wouldn't be worth it unfortunately.
  5. Inkfingers

    Inkfingers Thaumaturge

    It's kinda what I figured. I think the best option for Oozeball is honestly letting the game take a little longer, as anathemic as it may seem. It makes the waiting game less valuable, as you're not sitting out the clock so much as giving your opponent a chance to breathe, meaning that more matches contain actual play rather than just people waiting for the timeout.
    Sir Veza and Flaxative like this.
  6. Sir Veza

    Sir Veza Farming Deity

    This happened to me in my first game, but I see blocking the goal as a legitimate strategy. I used it myself when I had a lousy run of cards and the only alternative was to stand aside and let my opponent score points. If you don't use all means at your disposal to win, you're playing to lose. I don't like the 'playing for time-out' part. I'd rather have enough time for a clear victory, even if the clock went to 20 minutes.
    Squidy and Flaxative like this.
  7. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Yes, it is a very strong and dominant strategy from all the games I've played of it. If you have bad cards you'll always have a movement and can make the enemy waste multiple cards moving you while you just camp it out.

    Removing that would help speed up the game as well, since there is only so many times they can move the ooze without it coming back.
  8. jday

    jday Mushroom Warrior

    Another fix is to make the middle a permanent stone spikes or hot spot. Would have no impact on your ooze, not likely an opponent can push your blocker/thrower there enough to kill, but if properly balanced prevents repetitive standing on the middle.
  9. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Pretty sure all VP locations have to be open terrain. I don't believe there is a way to make lava or spike terrain at all -- let alone on a VP spot. Plus, that would damage the ooze if it stayed on it, so it wouldn't really work.

    The simplest and seemingly easiest solution would be to just tag the enemy slime figures as VP for the other team. You can explain it in the info that "it is a penalty for blocking the goal" or something.
  10. Harwin

    Harwin Kobold

    The ooze has 70 hp. You could do 20 damage per turn for standing on it and the ooze could still score 3 points.

    I don't like "give points to the other team" because I don't want the strategy to be to knock the enemy helpers into the goal.

    I much prefer the idea of making it lava terrain. I think that kills a helper in 2-3 turns. Prevents you from just passing and winning that way, but doesn't cause you so much grief that the right move is to push the other guy into it.

    Also, lava won't mess up movement the way spikes will.

    Further Edit:
    And if it takes 2-3 turns to kill the figure you can always tactically block if really necessary.
  11. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Well, there's no way to currently add terrain attachments to the board in the editor. Also, how would it really change he strategy over knocking the enemy into the VP spot to score a point? You could just knock them in there to burn them.
  12. Harwin

    Harwin Kobold

    Fire squares do 8 damage. If the slime figures have 20 HP, then I'd have to trap them in the center square for 3 turns to kill them. If they gave me a VP I'd get a point every one of those turns.

    If they give a VP every turn they are in there it's equally valuable for me to trap one of them in there as it is my ooze. Also, it would probably never be a good idea to leave your slime figure there to block it off.
    If having them sit there for 1 turn killed them then it's probably *more* valuable for me to trap one of them in there as it is my ooze. And it would also never be a good idea to leave my slime figure there to block it off.

    If, however, it takes 2-3 turns to die of damage, then I have tradeoffs to make. I can leave one of mine in there to block it, but make myself more at risk to getting my figure killed later. I can push an enemy figure in there to both block it off for my enemy's ooze and to damage him, but it's not a guaranteed point - and I might waste valuable cards when the enemy can move off easily.

    So it provides more tactical options than just a VP. I think 4 turns to kill is definitely too many to be interesting, but I think 2-3 turns could provide some options.
  13. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Either way, I don't think it is possible in the current system. I'd be curious to test with someone to see how it would play if the slimes gave a VP if they stayed on there. I think it would be hard to keep them on it due to positioning and how many movement cards they get.
  14. GayGoatGuy

    GayGoatGuy Kobold

    The Time is just not enough, i played it several times and lost, because my time ran out, i was leading but i lost... I don`t play slow, i just haven`t got a good c0nnection, so i loose 2-3 seconds each time i need to load something.

    Add more time, or just do it like in a real sportsgame, after the timer runs out, the player with the most points is the winner!
  15. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    The time is fine. 15 minutes is more than enough. I win constantly and I usually have double the time of my enemy. Just play fast. If you have a weak connection it shouldn't matter that much as you can calculate what you want to do in your turn.

    If the person with the most points won during a timeout then you'd get one point and then delay to auto win.
  16. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    I agree you can't just give the win to the most points at timeout, but the time is a major issue if there's a slower connection. If both players are playing quickly then 1) you don't have much time to calculate what you want to do, and 2) there are more actions played throughout the game - if your connection is only 1 second slower per action as your opponent, each round has 12 actions (2 new cards * 3 characters * 2 players) not including additional card draws, which are actually frequent, then in only 5 rounds you're a minute behind your opponent. I'd say most games are in the 10 rounds area... that's a 2 minute advantage by connection. For me personally I have lost 4 games by timeout in three leagues still playing so fast that I've made mistakes (there was a fifth timeout loss but it was my first game that I did play slower than I should have). In those timeouts usually the time difference has only been about a minute. So I do see it as a problem.
    Jacques and Flaxative like this.
  17. Questor

    Questor Ogre

    It already sucks up enough time with the 15 minute timer. Sorry to sound harsh but if your game is delayed because of a bad connection, it is your problem.
    Stexe likes this.
  18. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    There is the option to practice... I practiced before hand so I knew what I was doing when the League started. 15 minute is more than enough once you know what you're doing.

    I've never lost due to a time out on Oozeball but have won quite a few games due to it -- I consider that a legit strategy if the enemy is taking too long. It is supposed to emulate a SPORT which is fast paced.

    I'd also suggest increasing animation speeds -- I know a lot of people have it set on low or default. Move it to 8+ and it will help with time outs as long as you're not insanely over thinking.
  19. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    Like I said, I didn't even count my first game as that was definitely on me. My animations are always at 10.
  20. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    I wouldn't count the first 3 or 4. It takes time to get used to it to know what the cards are and stuff. I'd also suggest reading the League page and checking out all the cards individually to get an idea of synergies and stuff if time is a problem.

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