After much testing me and many others have come to the conclusion that its rarely worth using any other race than dwarfs. Not only do they have the strongest racial skills by a mile they also have the most hp while giving up a little movement for it. The fact is only warriors tend to care and since they can fill their deck with step attacks and use those as extra moves in the worst case scenario they don't even care. I don't think dwarfs need a nerf as much as i think the other races need a big buff but i could be wrong. Feel free to join in the discussion with what ever you feel like agreeing or disagreeing doesn't mater as what i want in the end is a good balanced game and if I'm confused then show me the light. I think hate cards are in order to solve this problem things like all dwarfs discard a card or all wizards take 3 damage possibly giving them slight usability outside of straight counters. For example range 6 target discards its armor and if hes a dwarf takes 5 damage. You know stopping people from over stacking on any class or race to the point where everyone is doing it.
Well this is sad. I am not in the beta but i planned on making a dorf party. 2 wizards and a priest. Not based on this being a good combination.. mainly because of the fun factor. But i agree with you there.. Wouldn't want to turn this into 400 ways to kill an elf.
In almost every game dwarves are the most stubborn and hard to kill characters. But they lack in mobility, they dislike magic (most of the time) and they really trust only each others. In CardHunter you simply can't remove the wizard class for the dwarves, and it's difficult to implement a rule for the "racial grudge" or whatever. But the lack of mobility... I think the real problem here is "step cards", and not only for dwarves. Yes with dwarves this problem get bigger, but right now (and we know it) step cards override Encumber, Difficult Terrain... I hope devs could fix that(or find another solution). For racial skills I tend to disagree: right, dwarves have "Dwarven Cry" and "Toughness", but elves have "Elvish Insight" and "Elvish Mobility". Human are the "lowest" of the race: "Lateral Thinking" is quite bad, "Forward Thinking" not so good ad the other racial cards. I see a "natural" balance (after fixing step cards and giving some better racial cards to human). My 50 cents.
Actually dwarfs have the 4(5?) strongest racials(in mine and as far as i know gabbeks opinon at least) Shake It Off Dwarven Battlecry Toughness Taunt ? and the discard all blocks that just slaughters parry heavy warriors Elvish Insight is a cute trick but it changes little to nothing and elfs are the weakest of any race Elvish Mobility is actually just a worse version of Team Run as far as i can see
I tend to disagree. Shake It Off is good but you don't have to play traits or other buffs for your characters, because it discard all the cards attached to them. Better Disenchant in my opinion. Toughness is good, yes, but it's like all blocks: if I play the weakest attack card I have I'll made you waste it, and then I can attack in full. War Cry is situational: no blocks in hand, useless card. And sometimes an armor is better than a block. I don't like Taunt, and I don't think is a racial dwarf card, but I'm not sure. And I didn't find an item with all the good racials: you want Dwarven Battle Cry? No Toughness etc... Elvish Insight can change everything: you know all the opponents cards, if this is not useful what else? And you draw a card too. Elvish Mobility is a free move, better than Team Run for me I hope in some maps with victory locations all over the map and not only all together (like in some single quests, a pain in the ass if you play dwarves), so mobility can make the difference. Dwarves are strong? Yes. Dwarves are too strong? Maybe, but maybe not. I think that if devs fix the "step bug", add some "mobility maps" and change the human skills, the balance will improve and Dwarves will be no more "the thoughest of all races"
Let me correct you there Toughness only stops attacks that actually do damage which means you cant draw it out with healing and the like meaning its Superior to block and more like parry. Just like parry It draws you a card when it triggers which is probably the part i have the biggest problem with. Unlike blocks it protects you even from the back making it insanely versatile and probably the best defensive card in the game. I did miss the free move part on Elvish mobility I'll admit but considering how frail elf's are if you have enough elfs in your party to make good use of it i don't see you winning anyway.
After the PvP league I'll try a "full Elves party" (Eewwww!), so we'll see if they are so frail or not (I have some ideas in mind)
I would say that the biggest issue I've got with dwarves and PvP and in general 'draw another card' cards... you simply get only 2 cards per round - if you have parry, you counter one attack and draw another card - effectively 3 cards vs 1 - same applies to thoughness etc. Another thing is that lowest hp of elves mean that you often can die within a single attack or in a single round - simply from one character itself, and when you've used your movement card and somehow step cards / winds of war will push your elf into melee range of warrior - say your prayers. I'll mention more things... but currently I'm braindead!
As it currently stands (although my pVp exposure isn't vast), I sort of have the same feeling towards dwarves; I can take it for granted that they can't naturally move around as much, and I can gear equipment towards that (or not if my build doesn't call for greater mobility). If I want to use Elves (at the other end of the hp scale), I can't really gear my equipment towards giving them more hp. I think that might change in future, depending on map design and additional racial traits; at the moment I find more situations where having additional hp would usually outweigh skills that I could only use on a Human/Elf. As a slight aside, I'm usually a fan of buffing or adding things, rather than nerfing things.
I'd be interested to see if a mobility control build can crush dwarves, i.e. something focussing on a lot of teleport, whirlwind and terrain overlays.
Well if your referring to stopping terrain then it should affect elfs just as much. The actual main problem right now besides dwarf racials being much better than the rest is the fact that step attacks are not only "extra" moves when you need them but also bypasses encumber making a dwarf with step attacks far superior in mobility to a faster warrior since you always stand the chance of having them move away after you move in to attack and step attacks fix that for either race but give the same move to all races.
It's not just stopping terrain, a dwarf that has been whirlwinded away will take much longer to get back into range. I get the point though. Elves used to have Scamper as their default move card!
Thats very interesting because the more i played the more i figured they should have that instead. What was the reason you changed your mind too strong in pve?
Balance sure isn't a kind mistress one wrong step and bam your screwed I wonder if toughness wouldn't be more in line with other similar skills if it didn't draw a card.
Specifically, my elves were dominant in PvP Some core game rules have changed since then which would substantially temper this, so we do sometimes talk about making Scamper the default move card again. When we have enough people playing PvP to collect substantive data we'll no doubt make some tweaks and changes.
'substantive data' triggers salivation...will such metadata be released to gen pop ? I'm interested collating and analysis for wiki purposes
How would limiting step cards work out, btw - maybe adding "halt" at least to the ones with moves higher than 1? Also, reintroducing scamper to elves does seem plausible to me.
Hmm, that would certainly make elves a lot more interesting choice in PvE as well... I for one like the idea!
Me and gabbek are gona try and run some more tests but i fear that as is elfs are by far the worst race for any class
