Dev Diary: "AI" is coming! Let’s talk about respawning

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Flaxative, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. Wildarm

    Wildarm Ogre


    New content is always good. I like the new scenario versatility that re-spawning may bring. I still see Nimbus/Volcano being the brute force answer to many very challenging scenarios. AotA was full of tough fights that became somewhat trivial with that build.

    EttSC was less so, due to the high movement rates of mobs and sheer amount of RNG that the radiation attacks could bring. Hopefully, they add a fair amount of moves to the respawn mobs to prevent the volcano mechanic from being too easy a counter.

    Looking forward to new challenges!
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
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  2. mikey76500

    mikey76500 Hydra

    Huh. Welp, here are my 1.5 cents:

    Negative Energy Being: This is the only one of the 3 that I'm a 100% fan of, though, if you're savvy [and reckless] you already know how to make this card look like a complete joke.

    Flatten: 50? Really? Straight over 25, 30, 35, and 40 and straight to 50, huh? That's not an Amethyst; even Almighty Bludgeon isn't a guaranteed OHKO if it gets past all your Armor and Blocks and it connects. I made a Suggestions thread about adding Qualities [and Rarities], once; if flatten actually goes in with a Base Damage of 50, I think Flatten should be the first card that is >Amethyst, both in code AND in looks [I don't mean Amethyst+++++, either].

    Roulette: I'm no fan of luck-based shenanigans like Roulette. Stuff like that in RPGs has a tendency to NOT be as random as planned, programmed or intended. Roulette has the potential to REALLY become bad when there's less characters on the board, too, so a damage tweak of some kind may be necessary, both to decrease the chance of accidental enemy suicides and friendly fires AND to decrease the chances of...well, luck-based shenanigans on the player's part, too. I've made an alternate Roulette idea for BM's consideration; see post #465 in this thread.

  3. timeracers

    timeracers Guild Leader

    Not all of these cards will be player cards like flatten will definitely not be put on any items.
  4. BlackVoidDeath

    BlackVoidDeath Guild Leader

    I wouldnt put it past the devs to add an item or two with flatten on them. :p
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  5. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

  6. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    Will there be new treasures and skills with this expansion?
  7. ClanCrusher

    ClanCrusher Hydra

    I'm guessing a warrior weapon with 5x Large Weapon and 1x Flatten. Call it the Huge Boulder.

    In all seriousness, I'm going to guess that this is likely to be a stationary object that you have to avoid. Probably something equivalent to the wooden doors or a rock formation, going on the artwork. Troll Tyrants can hit you like a tank, but nothing quite beats massive crushing damage for pure lethality in a D&D game.

    Negative Energy Being seems like a fun card, but it also seems incredibly powerful. Almost like a two-turn Nimbus since our most powerful targeted healing spell is 8. If this card actually gets seeded onto player items then it's going to make purge all that more important. The phrasing in and of itself suggests this is just a monster card though. Particularly the 'BEING' part. That seems to imply that this is a particular creature with this trait or composition rather than just some magical effect a priest can slap on.

    As four Roulette? That definitely seems like another enemy card. Probably one in a themed set for a boss monster. The attack type is Magic Unholy, and while the new set could bring many surprises, nothing about the Priest character has ever really hinted at a gambling theme. Vampirism and Demonic Pacts, sure, but not really Roulette-style random chance.

    Or perhaps we're finally going to get the Jeweler. He seems the type to gamble a game on random chance. I'm personally still holding out for the Troll.


    All that aside, if we're going to be introducing this respawn mechanic wholesale in the next update, I really hope we have some sort of better indication as to WHICH monsters will respawn WHEN. It's simple now because there's basically only one map that has this mechanic, but just from the examples you provided, we're going to be seeing a lot more of it, and Gary isn't going to remind us after the first time we play through these missions.

    I also hope you have some way of telling us that a victory condition lies in killing all the monsters at once rather than just removing all of the victory squares and blindsiding us with this victory condition. After all, killing all the monsters at once didn't win you the Rumbling Charger's scenario, so how is this information going to be communicated to the player once we can no longer see Gary's introduction?
  8. Magic Elves

    Magic Elves Thaumaturge

    I'm personally hoping for at least one map in which the PLAYER characters respawn, against hordes of strong enemies that hold the victory point. That would be a fun twist.
    Wildarm, CT5, Robauke and 5 others like this.
  9. mikey76500

    mikey76500 Hydra

    @ClanCrusher: I quit MP forever if there's actually an ANYTHING with Flatten on it that isn't Level 27 or higher. Seriously. MP at 1150-1350 is headache-inducing enough as it is [That's why I'm way more interested in more Campaign material; took long enough :p].
  10. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

    That's a fun idea.
    Merdis, Wildarm, CT5 and 4 others like this.
  11. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob Thaumaturge


    When I considered, "What kind of item could possibly get a Flatten into a player's hands (especially if the quality were increased majorly)?" I knew Trait x5 would be OP as opposed to really handicapping -- although Large Weapon + Fright + Cowardly + Fumble + [something .. Trip?] might be a little funnier lol -- and instead envisioned Flatten, Weak Strike x5. $E^ D

    But even then, dropping the item's value cost like that .. hmm .. instead, then ..
    Flatten, Shuffle x5 ? $:^ P
    Flatten, Clumsy Chop x5 ? heheheheh

    Also, as for Roulette being Unholy, that fits in so well with Priests' Radiation at this point, I'm surprised anyone raised a flag at all. (That said, I do wonder thematically how/why Priests are the only characters with Radiation, and why Radiation is found on Priests.)

    To answer the (truly bothersome) issue of "Gary's intro text helps then goes away forever," Mary Myrax could add the necessary information (in story format of course) to the adventure module texts themselves.

  12. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob Thaumaturge

    I'm a fan of Erratic Damage, Radiation, Hypnotic Beacon, and the announcement of Roulette. That said,

    Mikey, I appreciate the weird luck-based shenanigans idea you submitted (despite you not being a fan of such), but I still like Roulette as-is so far. To answer each of your points:

    1. To be a fan of something is subjective. I get that. I'm a fan. You're not. Okidoky. (Meanwhile, this was a card game -- meaning luck -- with dice -- meaning luck -- with Altruism long before Citadel even came along to introduce its slew of random mechanics. Even Campaign -- which you enjoy -- deals with those random cards and dice.)

    2. People have pointed out many times that modern RPG designers have this strange (and to me it is strange) habit of weighing dice rolls in players' favors. Man. Frankly, I'm fine even in a P&P RPG if my character permanently dies because I tried a desperate action and failed my roll. That's life. That's not just games; that's life. Police officer tries from a distance to stop some murdering in progress, but the officer's firearm jams. Employee follows the official procedure of thoroughly checking a vehicle before driving it, but a nail in the road causes the employee to be late to work anyway. Real event: I try to Maze an ally across the Wicked Waterway onto the island with a 20% success rate, and the ally lands on the island, great; don't forget that Parry failure and Unreliable Block success are even less likely at ~17%. Your concern about Card Hunter's randomness doesn't concern me because people have charted statistics (@Sir Veza, weren't you one?) of various sorts, and the general conclusion is, yay, Card Hunter actually takes the randomness as strictly as Melvin.

    3. This will be the first time I will have ever said, "fixed that for you." Congratulations, I suppose? Roulette has the potential to REALLY become risk-swayable depending on the number of characters on the board, too, thus a player-strategy tweak of some kind may be necessary to A. use enemy suicides to counteract their other scary factors (e.g. Nimbus ignorance, Volcano first-turn passing), B. decrease the chance of allies' friendly fires, AND C. otherwise continue to mitigate luck-based shenanigans using this card (like all other cards) on the computer's/player's part. There. Fixed that for you.

    (And if I need to spell out player-strategy tweak: BM is smart/experienced enough to know what the card will do in enemy hands. A single boss character could use it quite well -- even moreso with nice armor. A mass of enemy creatures could use it toward more hilarious results. This requires no change on the damage part. If a player doesn't know how to handle this, then the player needs to tweak one's own strategy. More armor. More Nimbus. More Force Field. More block (Lifesaving, Block Missle; maybe Catch Arrow or even Duck, heh heh). More heal. More discard. More stun. That list goes on and on. Also, consciously keeping the odds in the player's favor is a proper tactic -- letting Roulette be used when there are more vulnerable enemy chars than vulnerable player/team chars. If a player gets Roulette (via one means or another), and it's too dangerous to play Roulette, then don't play it; there, you just swayed the risk in your favor. Neverminding Roulette for a moment: since this game has random cards and die rolls -- really, really bringing about that P&P RPG feel! $:^ ] -- "keeping the odds in the player's favor" is a proper tactic all across the board anyway. (Pun. Booyah.))

    Regards, $:^ J
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
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  13. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    Hints, for one. But yeah, a number of new scenarios are going to have more esoteric win conditions and we'll do our best to communicate them clearly. =)
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  14. Dieben

    Dieben Lizardman Shopkeeper

    I'm seriously keen on the proposed Roulette. Now all I need is Slots, Snake Eyes, and Jackpot in order for me to start up my own casino.

    Let's Make Cardhuntria Great Again!
    -Paid for by the Campaign to Legalize Lizardman Tribal Gambling Halls
  15. Wildarm

    Wildarm Ogre

    I could see some cool builds for that type of mission. Hmmmm suicide draw priests packing the max number of travelling curses possible. I wondering if your deck would get reset if your character respawns. I would expect not? I forget how the mechanic does for your undead mobs in the GG league. You lose your hand but I don't know if the deck stats get reset when you resurrect an ally.
  16. Vlamona

    Vlamona Thaumaturge

    The deck is not reset when you respawn.
  17. MathuranF

    MathuranF Lizardman Priest

    Out of curiosity, how would the interaction between a vamp item (say invigorating touch) and "negative energy being" go? Would vamp heal 7, while negative energy being takes 0; vamp heals 0, NEB takes 0, Vamp heals 0, NEB gains 7; etc.
  18. Wildarm

    Wildarm Ogre

    ^ You would hurt yourself and the enemy with vamp attacks if you had neg energy on. If your opponent had negative energy being, I think the enemy would heal 7 and you would heal 0 since you did not deal any damage. Similar to if you drain someone who has nimbus. You don't heal.
  19. visak13

    visak13 Ogre

    It would be cool if there was a trait that would exchange opponents traits so that we got some negative energy on our chars. Just saying.
  20. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    Like Redistribute?

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