Card Hunter's versions of Timmy/Tammy, Jenny/Johnny, and Spike(/Star)

Howdy, all,

Warning. Wall of Text. Duration 3. We'll see whether further discussion warrants Everlasting Ground or Cleansing Burst.

I'd like at some point to ask out of curiosity where we would subjectively put ourselves within this triad of "psychographic profiles" created for Magic: The Gathering's own research and development purposes. However, before getting there, wouldn't it be more thematic, flavorful, fun, original, etc. to have Card Hunter's own short-hand version of these profiles?

The world over discusses "Timmy, Johnny, and Spike" plus "Tammy, Jenny, and Spike" (or sometimes "Tammy, Jenny, and Star") due to an article put out by a Magic R&D guy years ago. The original article put too much emphasis on certain stereotypes, according to its own author, and therefore I'd like us all to read his updated version which includes various subtypes. Unfortunately, it mentions a test that you were supposed to take before reading the article, but long story short, they removed the test due to both knowledge requirements and Web technologies obsoleting it. Therefore, for now, we'll all just have to use our subjective reasoning to place ourselves after reading that new (2006) article.

Are these types and subtypes fine to piggyback in Card Hunter? I know the terms show up a couple rare times on the forum, but never even with an explanation (iirc). They're recognizable to some, but I rhetorically ask, why base categories of mindsets of why-people-play upon some other company's some-other-game? (It's something how much Magic I've read up on in the last year just trying to understand so many people attempting to explain CH, but using non-CH information, le sigh.) If they are fine, then *pssh,* moving on. $:^ ]

But. Let's say it's not fine. Let's say we can do better -- or maybe we should do better, I don't know. If that's the case, then questions arise. Should it be BM's own naming since it is their game? At the same time, does BM actively use these psychographic profiles for the same fun-for-money reasons as the M:TG staff? Also, am I simply unaware that there is now an industry standard to just use those names across however-many TCGs and CCGs, meaning that bucking the standard would cause unnecessary confusion? If it's mainly the community who would talk about these terms anyway, (chiefly for self-identification most likely, since that's how I see M:TG communities using them when I search the 'Net,) then is it just fine that the community creates such names -- or decides to use that other company's other game's R&D tool as-is?

Using such terms to describe ourselves... It can be fun to identify -- with knowledge of self, and with others of similar or entirely different mindsets. It can be useful to empathize with others; sometimes I see finger-pointing and frowny-face tones of voices in World Chat which I wish could be alleviated if only the different personalities could see where the other is coming from -- that is, why the other person even plays CH in the first place, and why that other person picks the characters and items/cards and lays them on the virtual tabletops the way one does.

Let's say we just made our own labels. If we make up any old arbitrary name, then seriously, we might as well just stick with what M:TG gave us. On the other hand... What if we used names from the CH universe? With what little we see of our favorite GMs, can we determine which profile(s) each fits? Can you see the fun flavor in identifying with Karen or Melvin? $:^ ]

Interestingly, and unfortunately, while writing this I noticed that if these characters fit only one profile (and not a hybrid), they might not be broad enough! It's clear the characters are made for humorous stereotypes to some extent, but even if they only each fit one profile, they might only be subtypes -- not representing the whole profile well enough for people to want to identify! (Strictly using M:TG's labels, Timmy had (or still has?) a reputation of novicehood apparently due to the Power Gamer subtype, meaning many Timmys have not wanted to identify as a Timmy.)

The obvious CH example that comes to my mind is Melvin being a Spike, especially an Analyst. Even if he managed to flub a pretty basic rule about whether character or terrain attachments come first, his view was that he played a "combo deck," and he obviously took it very personally when he came in second (which really isn't bad -- it's just not the top where he wanted to be). Now, I could see someone arguing he's a Johnny, too, since 1. "combo decks" are often about interesting card synergies; 2. he's willing to physically fumble around upon his knees just to cosplay his favorite CH race; and 3. he even created an adventure module to very plainly glorify himself in his own mind, trying to use his favorite aspects of CH which he identifies with the strongest, and being absolutely aghast at the die-rolling handicap which the rules (one way or another) foisted upon him. I answer, 1. if winning is the very reason for a Spike to play (because it's enjoyable to beat a challenge), then a "combo deck" is definitely one method toward that goal; 2. it's easy to see him believing dwarves to be inherent winners and therefore desiring to display to all that he fully associates himself as a winner (but yeah, this is probably the strongest hybrid Johnny-Spike argument right here); and 3. Spike the Innovator sees a winning creation as another method toward that ultimate goal of winning (although again, another good Johnny hybrid argument).

It seems easy to say, Gary is Timmy, Melvin is Spike, and thus Karen is Jenny. Gary (probably between the Social Gamer and the Diverse Player) definitely loves playing all the different aspects for its own fun sake; however, Gary has his own creative streak wherein he desires to emphasize character and plot development -- including creatively expressing angst about his big brother whom he admires on one hand but feels oppressed thereby on the other -- which calls out for some Johnny love. Furthermore, Karen (possibly between Offbeat Designer and Deck Artist) and her iconoclastic self-expression is pretty clear in her card case, all-elven party* (I'm quite sure long before AotA gave elves a power boost), and even the fact that she's playing this tabletop-RPG-card-battle game in the general retro mostly-80's-feel-era they inhabit; however, she loves the social element of the game, doesn't want to be a passive bystander, and really gets into the minds and sociological issues and whatnot of the internal game's characters (like the Baron's family and the Black Forest trees) -- pointing her back to Tammy; actually, she could be pure Tammy but also straight-up Vorthos, which we'll briefly touch on after a footnote and two paragraphs.

* For argument's sake, strictly, I'm not talking about Amy; iirc, Karen does mention in one obscure line that she wants to bring her elf trio to Card Stock. However, that said, I think we all can figure out (if we didn't hear any more solid info from BM) that Amy is a weird oversight and is supposed to be Karen anyway; therefore, we can easily picture Karen's party by merely looking at the faceless ranked GM. While I'm discussing this, I'll say I'm not including any Cardotron version because it's a machine; in-universe-wise, if it has any personality, it surely only reflects its programmer.

What if we instead looked at Gary's family only? What if we said Gary is Timmy, Melvin is Johnny, and Mom is Spike? (or Star?) "Oh, kids, here are your little playthings. Btw, I'm going to crush you again next time we all get to sit and play. Cheese and crackers?" (To be fair, a couple of us in World Chat once discussed the possibility of Mom getting a bad rap because Gary wanted her to join the fun and thus slapped together an insanely OP party for her to get in on the action. Alternatively, it'd also be funny if Karen made the thing for her once she began regularly hanging out. Ha.) Some of us in World have pondered the possibility that the upcoming AI will let us see more of Mom. Here's hoping. $E^ }

Just throwing it out there: There's an obscure, unofficial "Dave" profile which (from what I gather) concentrates more on destroying others' fun as the reason why for playing; this isn't merely Spike; Spike can be fun to play; Dave sets out not to be, even if Dave doesn't quite realize that's the case. We could joke that Cardotron2000 is a Dave. $;^ } lol $:^ b I'm not sure if I'd put Melvin in this category, but some of his control issues (and the ridiculous Melvelous module text) makes me at least bring this up. Okay, brought up. Moving on.

Back to the real topic at hand, there's a further complication. M:TG already uses "Melvin" in a different way. If GM names were to be used, barring the above paragraphs' issues, there's a separate set of profile types that a fan began and M:TG eventually adopted; you saw the beginnings of this if you read that article, which, really, you're likely lost in this post if you didn't read it. In super, duper short: Vorthos and Mel (Melvin / Melanie) describe what a player likes about the game. Vorthos enjoys, let's say, the flair of the game for the flair's own sake; Mel enjoys, let's also say, the mechanics of the game for the mechanics' own sake. A person can be one, both, or neither; a person can be a full-blown Vorthos, digging into the history and art and reading all the M:TG novels etc. etc. and never playing a single game. Melvin might enjoy some crazy cards that have several different mechanical interactions within itself and with other cards, even if Melvin would never play that particular card for whatever T*mmy/J*nny/S* reason (or if Melvin is just not a player). And yeah, any combination of T*mmy/J*nny/S* can also be any combinatin of Vorthos/Mel. (Note: Not being a player makes less sense in CH than in M:TG since you chiefly collect in CH via playing, and there isn't a lot of peripheral material, whereas M:TG has had twenty years of mythos to build and loose cards to individually collect/trade.) So yeah. The further complication is that "Melvin" is both a what profile for M:TG and a GM in CH (thus a potential why profile as this post postulates).

Another difficulty is that T*mmy/J*nny/S* are descriptors, empty shells, whereas Gary/Melvin/Karen/Mom/Cardotron/Amy/etc. are at-least-somewhat fleshed-out personalities. Not everyone wants to identify with certain personalities of the same profile set, even if the exact same subset -- because not everyone likes certain personalities (or at least doesn't identify with them).

For example, I've recently said elsewhere, I can tell I'm a full-blown combination of Timmy, Johnny, and Spike. (And, if you couldn't tell by the time you've read this far, I'm a bit of a Vorthos. $;^ D lol ..but hey, if you read the aforementioned "elsewhere" -- my AI leak post -- then you can probably tell I'm a Mel, too.) Nevertheless, I don't really like the idea of identifying with CH's Melvin (which profile-wise I do due to my being part Spike, and my Spikeness being part Analyst) -- because I just don't like his jerk personality. $:^ } (I mean, of course I like his personality on an audience level -- just not a "what if this guy were real" level.)

Therefore, another possibility is to grab other CH flavor names and attach them to the profiles. (Another possibility is to create new profiles, but I don't believe that's necessary in the least.) For example: even though I haven't played much Caverns of Chaos, just hearing a little, and seeing the items that bear his name, the legendary Xander strikes me as a Johnny, wanting to express his own crazy, synergistic super-turtle self and wanting to win battles (which are often damage-based) on his own terms. If we went this route, what characters could be what profiles? Blitzkenripper is Spike? -- or is he too high-profile? ("I'm a Blizzy." Would people go for that?) Taking only characters from the pre-expansion time might be "safest" (most on-par with each other for timeline equality, least likely to carry expansion-connotative feelings, etc.), but how iconic vs. obscure should they be, and why?

Ontop all that, something I'd like to see is if we wouldn't only subjectively place ourselves, but if one of us (eventually!) might create our own CH test of T*mmy/J*nny/S* -- whether using M:TG's (possibly industry-standard) labels or new CH-specific names. $:^ ] Amazingly, M:TG's original test only had two questions. $8^ O I'm sure it didn't bother with subtypes, but I'd love to know what those questions and answer-choices were! (Maybe I'll go find that, too, one day.)

Regards,

 

I read that wall of text.

I was familiar with the original Timmy, Johnny and Spike, but I don't remember reading about the subgroups. And Vorthos / Mel was totally a new thing to me, so thanks for that.

First time I came across with Timmy, Johnny and Spike was ~16 years ago, when I was into MtG. After reading your article, I was quite certain that I first read about the player profiles from The Duelist. As you may have noticed, I'm quite avid collector / hoarder, so I paid a visit to my attic storage room to find a certain cardboard box.

After flipping through my collection of dozen or so The Duelist magazines, I found what I was looking for. "Are You Timmy, Johnny, or Spike?..." quiz on The Duelist #39 from July 1999.

I'm not sure, whether this is the same quiz they published on the internet, but here it is:

(I carefully photoshopped away my original penciled answers from 1999 )

Spoiler: My quiz results

My original results from 1999:



Results when I re-did the test after scanning:
Timmy: 2, Johnny: 4 & Spike: 8

 

Karen is a social gamer: she doesn't care about winning or even playing, she wants to hang out with friends and would have no interest in a single player version. Melvin is really serious about winning. Gary is an explorer: he wants to see everything and do everything and gets much of his enjoyment from opening the box and seeing all the new cards and maps.

 

From what I've read, a Timmy/Tammy wants to live show full experience, be that with big attacks, big talk, etc. They want to be immersed in the game.
A Johnny/Jenny wants to express themselves, and will use the game to do that. This might be the player who is creative in the way they do things, be it combo, whatever.
A Spike wants to prove themselves. They're very determined. This may not always be determined to win, either. It may the person who is determined to make a build everyone else wants to play, or to make a map everyone enjoys, etc.
.
So, in short, I think this could easily apply to CH. ( and I tend to lean Johnny myself)

 

Thank you, Pawndawan, for the scan! Since the new article took place years later and had a quiz with only two questions (see its preview text and click through the quiz link to see what I mean), I believe it's a totally different quiz, yes. In fact, what you posted got published some three years before the "first" article I refered to; it seems M:TG has talked about these profiles a lot over the years. (To be clear what I mean: You gave us a David Noonan's paper article from 1999. I skipped over Mark Rosewater's online article from 2002 -- but now link to it from this post. I linked Mark Rosewater's "revisited" online article from 2006 in this thread's original post.)

Indeed, the quiz you posted seems to only concentrate on Timmy the Power Gamer, Johnny the Combo Player, and Spike the subtype-less. (You're welcome for the update!) Funny to see your results. I would've pegged you for quite the Timmy-Johnny myself. $:^ ] But then, maybe I just had you confused with Ozyola. $;^ b

I sort of took that magazine quiz two half-times. The first time, I got about halfway through when a computer issue erased my answers. The second time, I didn't feel like going through the "what card would you pick" questions again and just dropped any Q&A that required Magic knowledge from me. (I don't have Magic play experience. Looking at those cards, I can only guess at certain synergies and certain technical meanings unless I want to spend forever researching. I researched some the first time, but nope on the second. I even tried researching some for the last three questions on my second try, but I realized they really deal with the what instead of the why(-play) since they're about creating a new card for the general populous, not necessarily about what card you'd put in your own deck.) Therefore, the answers I have for certain:

Spoiler: quiz results

1 0
2 0
3 0

4 1
5 1
6 1

7 1
8 1
9 1

Total: 2, 2, 2

Yep, a CH version of the quiz -- and allowing for multiple subtypes instead of only one stereotype each -- would be nice. $:^ }

~~~~~

Good points, Kalin.

I'd say it does matter to Karen that she gets to play (you can only use my set if I get to GM!), but you're right about the power of the social aspect since she didn't even want to go to Card Stock without the new friendship. (I hate to point out that Melvin would probably be fine going by himself just because that's probably not necessary of all Spikes. After all, a non-jerk Spike might want to be rooted on by friends/family -- who are on the sidelines, not playing, not that that's important, b/c what's important is the (non-jerk) Spike playing and winning. Lol. But those are just my thoughts. Perhaps instead a non-jerk Spike could just be like ever-so-grateful and promise to bring back souvenirs, mind focused on being able to attend and win.)

What I noted about Karen's card case -- especially after seeing Pawndawan assessed for M:TG as a Spike -- I now realize has nothing to do with why she plays, why she chooses the cards and parties she does, etc. What you said about Gary (exploration) agrees my assessment of his being a Diversity Timmy. It would be something if Gary and Karen are really just two subsets of Timmy. Ha ha ha.

~~~~~

Fwiw, another article I found useful came from MTG Salvation, but it mostly just quoted official articles. One particular thing I liked about it, though, was its proposed view of how one gamer profile sees another gamer profile:

• "Timmies see Johnnies as too focused on certain combos and Spikes too bent on winning."
  
• "Johnnies see Timmies as simplistic and Spikes as uptight and unoriginal."
• "Spikes see Timmies as rookies and Johnnies as eccentric and annoying."

One reason I further see myself as a three-way mixture (a .. triybrid? lol) is that I see some of these very kinds of comments in World Chat and just wish that the speakers thereof could understand each other -- because I can see where each of the six sentiments are coming from, but don't exactly personally with them agree. (I mostly just find "annoying" the people who complain about others with different playstyles/playreasons being annoying. $F^ } heheh)

My Timmy (Karen? Gary?) writes /{me}{1..3} a lot in battle. $:^ }
My Johnny (Karen? Gary?) elicits "What?! What was that?!" from my Analysizing opponent. $X^ D
My Spike (Melvin, ...Cardotron lol) gets super annoyed that my chatting and weird decks have cost me games... $F^ |

~~~~~

So! No one yet has really added any input on the labels themselves. Do M:TG's T/J/S suffice? Would we do better to "personalize" it more via CH terminology? If so, are the GMs inappropriate? If that's so, then what (if any) other in-universe characters would be appropriate, and why? Come to think of it, would a race or class do better (or confuse matters more)?

If a race/class/combo set of descriptors would work, it wouldn't necessitate a player race/class. There are plenty of monster races/classes. Entropic / Legendary could be really cool descriptors but unfortunately are probably waaay too broad for this purpose. Just the player races, Dwarf, Human, Elf could relate to Spike, Timmy, Johnny, but I don't know if everyone would agree -- dwarves being pretty straightforward tanks, humans being the all-around hackers (diversity), and elves .. having .. all the movement .. maybe Dwarf-Human-Elf are more like Spike-Johnny-Timmy, except that movement/positioning are so key in this game, Spike might be the Elf after all. Yeah, player races are probably a no-go -- not even considering the confusion of saying "I'm a _____" for shorthand.

EDIT: Funny how certain guild names could work here, but we probably wouldn't want to do that. $}^ J "I'm a Sorcererer." "I'm a Charismatic Wall-Breaker." "I'm a (..Power of Fire? ..Knave of Ninety-Nine? ..Walking Carpet? ..Melvin? lol)." $}^ b

EDIT2: Ha ha ha ha ha ha, new idea. "I'm a Morvin." "I'm a Melvelous." "I'm a Melvin." $E^ D lol Morvin purely because the fact that his creator, Gary, is probably a Timmy. Melvelous because he's Melvin's self-expressive ego trip. Melvin because .. I don't think anyone would say he's not a Spike, at the very least in part (and predominantly at that).

EDIT3: The silly ideas I get. Timmy = Alice. Johnny = Hatter. Spike = Queen of Hearts.

 

First, I see a difference between "running the game" and "playing the game". Do we ever actually see Karen play? (Maybe at the end when we're trying to be the first to complete the campaign.)

Second, I interpret her comment to emphasize that she's bringing her set with her, not loaning it to Gary.

Warrior = Spike
Wizard = Timmy
Priest = Johnny
Dwarf = copycat
Elf = innovator (Cult of Bejeweled is an exception)
Human = social

Discuss.

 

Technical information from the game (with story spoilers in the odd event someone's reading this who hasn't played/finished yet - go do that! crazy talk..), where I've bolded some timeline (and other) highlights:

Spoiler

AgainstTheCockroaches16,PromptCompleteEvent,previous=AgainstTheCockroaches15,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Pizza's here! Why so sad everyone?,,,,,10,,karen pizza,vertical bounce,KAREN_PIZZA,,,,,,,
AgainstTheCockroaches17,PromptCompleteEvent,previous=AgainstTheCockroaches16,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Melvin freaked out big time and took his Card Hunter set away!,,,,,10,,gary sad,horizontal sway,GARY_OHH,,,,,,,
AgainstTheCockroaches18,PromptCompleteEvent,previous=AgainstTheCockroaches17,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Card Hunter - I knew you guys were playing that! Wanna use my set instead?,,,,,10,,karen happy,vertical fast bounce,KAREN_WOW,,,,,,,
AgainstTheCockroaches19,PromptCompleteEvent,previous=AgainstTheCockroaches18,,,DeckBuilderEvent,,RemoveGameScreenEvent,,,,,,,,,,,,,,You... you... play Card Hunter?,,,,,10,,gary surprise,,GARY_HUHWAH,,,,,,,
KarenGMReveal1,AdventurePrologueEvent,"adventure=Goblins in the Woods,order=after reveal",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"Yep, there's just one catch to using my Card Hunter set though - you gotta let me play too!",,,,,10,,karen gm sly,vertical bounce,KAREN_YEAH,,,,,,,
KarenGMReveal2,PromptCompleteEvent,previous=KarenGMReveal1,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"But, don't you have pizza deliveries to make?",,,,,10,,gary surprise,horizontal sway,GARY_WHAH,,,,,,,
KarenGMReveal3,PromptCompleteEvent,previous=KarenGMReveal2,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"Eh, they can wait! Hot or cold, this pizza always tastes awful.",,,,,10,,karen gm happy,,KAREN_LAUGH,,,,,,,

[PKB SNIP: Descent to the Core prompts]

GoblinsInTheWoods1,DeckBuilderEvent,"adventure=Goblins in the Woods,context=PreAdventure",,,DeckBuilderEvent,,RemoveGameScreenEvent,,,,,,,,,,,,,,<i>Goblin tribes gather in the forests. Will you venture forth and confront them?</i> ,,,,,10,,gary book,vertical bounce,GARY_ADVENTURERS,,,,,,,
GoblinsInTheWoods2,DeckBuilderEvent,"adventure=Goblins in the Woods,battle=0,state=0,context=MidAdventure",DeckBuilderEvent,"adventure=Goblins in the Woods,battle=0,state=0,context=PreAdventure",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hey guys - can I play too? ,,,,,10,,karen gm glee,vertical bounce,KAREN_HI,,,,,,,
GoblinsInTheWoods3,PromptCompleteEvent,previous=GoblinsInTheWoods2,,,DeckBuilderEvent,,RemoveGameScreenEvent,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Well it is your set. Why don't you GM? ,,,,,10,,gary happy book,,GARY_YEAH,,,,,,,
GoblinsInTheWoods4,PhaseStartEvent,phase=attachment,,,,,,,,,Tree Forts Outpost,,,,,,,,,,"Deal with those shamans first, or they'll just heal their hulking friends.",,,,,10,,karen gm happy,,PAGE,,,,,,,
GoblinsInTheWoods5,DeckBuilderEvent,"adventure=Goblins in the Woods,adventureState=2,battle=0,context=MidAdventure",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"Alright, nice one! Wait - this is important. Are you guys going to CardStock?",,,,,10,,karen gm happy,,KAREN_ALRIGHT,,,,,,,
GoblinsInTheWoods6,PromptCompleteEvent,previous=GoblinsInTheWoods5,,,DeckBuilderEvent,,RemoveGameScreenEvent,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'm only doing this pizza gig so I can buy a ticket.,,,,,10,,karen gm glee,vertical bounce,PAGE,,,,,,,
GoblinsInTheWoods7,PhaseStartEvent,phase=attachment,,,,,,,,,Tree Forts Webs,,,,,,,,,,Goblin Shredders chew up armor faster than Melvin chews up a large ham and pineapple!,,,,,10,,karen gm happy,vertical bounce,KAREN_YEAH,,,,,,,
GoblinsInTheWoods8,DeckBuilderEvent,"adventure=Goblins in the Woods,adventureState=2,battle=1,context=MidAdventure",,,DeckBuilderEvent,,RemoveGameScreenEvent,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Wow. You minced those guys. I can't believe you didn't tell me you were playing Card Hunter all this time!,,,,,10,,karen gm happy,vertical bounce,KAREN_WOW,,,,,,,
GoblinsInTheWoods9,DeckBuilderEvent,"adventure=Goblins in the Woods,battle=2,state=0,context=MidAdventure",,,DeckBuilderEvent,,RemoveGameScreenEvent,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I've been dreaming about going to CardStock. I can't wait to try out my killer vampire deck in the tournament!,,,,,10,,karen gm glee,vertical bounce,PAGE,,,,,,,
GoblinsInTheWoods10,PhaseStartEvent,phase=attachment,,,,,,,,,Tree Forts Glade,,,,,,,,,,These guys are frothing at the mouth. I would be too were I stuck in this forest.,,,,,10,,karen gm happy,horizontal sway,KAREN_YEAH,,,,,,,
GoblinsInTheWoods11,DeckBuilderEvent,"adventure=Goblins in the Woods,adventureState=2,battle=2,context=MidAdventure",,,DeckBuilderEvent,,RemoveGameScreenEvent,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"Nicely played &playerName;, I love the way you used your Move cards.",,,,,10,,karen gm glee,vertical bounce,KAREN_YOUROCK,,,,,,,
GoblinsInTheWoods12,DeckBuilderEvent,"adventure=Goblins in the Woods,battle=3,state=0,context=MidAdventure",,,DeckBuilderEvent,,RemoveGameScreenEvent,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"Hey, what's the matter with Melvin anyway? He's kind of cranky, isn't he?",,,,,10,,karen gm happy,,KAREN_HUH,,,,,,,
GoblinsInTheWoods13,PhaseStartEvent,phase=attachment,,,,,,,,,Tree Forts Patrol,,,,,,,,,,"OK, this Hulk is the boss. It says he's got an Obliterating Hack, but we don't have it, so I'll just leave it out. ",,,,,10,,karen gm happy,,PAGE,,,,,,,
GoblinsInTheWoods14,DeckBuilderEvent,"adventure=Goblins in the Woods,adventureState=2,battle=3,context=MidAdventure",,,DeckBuilderEvent,,RemoveGameScreenEvent,,,,,,,,,,,,,,This is so cool. I better run and drop this pizza off though. It's stone cold!,,,,,10,,karen gm happy,vertical fast bounce,KAREN_YAY,,,,,,,

The main thing I wanted to note: at only a level 10 adventure, she wants to jump in, and in the very next (level 11) adventure, she's GMing. I'm not sure exactly the difference you're setting between "playing" and "running" -- especially since Karen calls the GM's actions to be "playing" as well. $;^ J

I can see and go along with the first list if it's trying to say warrior = "I'll win quickly, no matter if it's boring," wizard = "I wanna do cool stuff, winning being secondary," and priest = "I'm gonna hack the game." Of course, those are just stereotypes. Warriors and priests can just as easily be "I wanna do cool stuff"; wizards and warriors (old game reference intended) can just as easily be "I'm gonna hack the game"; and, wizards and priests .. okay, maybe not so much easily "I'll win quickly..." or even "I'll win reliably..." but can certainly still easily be "I'll win, no matter if it's boring."

The good news is, BM has built these character types with a lot of flexibility! $E^ b

The second list I'm a little lost on, though I pretty much see now -- after essaying it out down below -- except for the dwarf description.
Dwarf = copycat (??? .. I doubt you're relying on the sole "Duck" card for this descriptor)
Elf = innovator (understandable, CotB aside of course, especially since there's even widespread taboo against playing one class of elf altogether)
Human = social (leadership themes/mechanics, yeah - but I can see that being "innovation," too, in certain lights - of course, with Elf perhaps not being as social? maybe? it is something how elves' Elf Scamper and Elvish Insight are biased, along with dwarves' Dwarven War Cry, but humans' many leadership cards hit help any and/or all allies, meaning humans are essentially more social in that regard (plus, humans have many more such cards) - cool thoughts there, thanks! ...and in case I'm not clear, I'm using "leadership" not for the one card but for the whole slew of tactical/strategic/draw/etc. cards that help the team)

 

Yeah, I'm not happy with that choice of word either. Maybe "analyst" instead? I remember pre-AotA that pretty much everyone was playing dwarves because they were clearly the best race for, well, everything. There's probably a stronger argument that they're the least random of the races.

 

Btw, some clarity and some corrections:

If you go play Goblins in the Woods right now, you'll see Karen GMing it, even without all the dialog prompts. Pretty neat. $:^ ]
I didn't go through other modules, though, to see how many she GMs. I personally remembered it as being a lot of back-and-forth between her and Gary GMing for you.

I spoke of Karen and her elf party. I was wrong. As demonstrated in my last post, she mentioned her vampire party. I'd before said something about elves before AotA gave them better abilities (including the scary, scary Cautious Mobility that's slowly making its way to the chopping trimming block), which I see now is a moot argument. I could try to say vampires arguably received an even greater lift when Talented Healer replaced card draw with Cantrip, but that was likely during beta period since its changes were in 2013. So yeah, her party isn't quite the Johnny evidence I'd said before -- at least not for the reason given. Hm.

Also, Melvin does not run 1/1/1 dwarves. I just watched him face off against a newcomer (and get blitzed! *oohhhhh*) with his dwarven priest + warrior*2 party. (Newcomer appeared to be running Starter Party, too. Booyah, elf wizard. $;^ b heheh)

Kalin, another thing going for dwarves way back when was Vicious Thrust and Nimble Strike giving Step 2 and Step 4 respectively. I could totally see that putting dwarves on the same footing as other warriors in general. Even if Nimble Strike were rarer, it was still nothing to get Vicious Thrusts, right?

 

Quick thing on the GM trio: The campaign dialogue has been changed over time, so that would seem to put her more into the Jenny archetype since vampires were one of the stronger decks after the NS balance patches and can still be pretty competitive. You could even make an arguement that Karen would be the S* type of player instead of Melvin, due to her deck quite likely being the strongest of the three!

Also, out of interest, what archetype do you think I am?

 

Melvin could be argued as an evil Johnny, now that I think about it. He's very much about making others "fall for (his) traps". His loss at Card stock he blames on attachments ordering, iirc, which could indicate a combo player (I could see him doing volcano + AT, then losing because expecting his AT to burn opponent who has a Traveller/slippery on). Even with Melvilous, he kinda likes to combo, such as throwing spikes at you, teleporting you back on Spikes, etc. Just my 2 gold...

 

Another point of clarity. Melvin's party in our ranked MP is 2war+pri dwarves; Melvin's party in Campaign's CardStock "MP" is 1/1/1 dwarves. No wonder I got confused. (Plus, the lines about Volcano would obviously not fit 2war+pri come to think of it.)

Magic, funny @ Karen maybe being Star. Might be more viable if she had dialog where she really pressed the player to win the Campaign quickly not for her ticket's sake nor your enjoyment's sake, but for beating-Melvin's-challenge-period sake. $:^ } (Or, if she said anything else that seemed to emphasize winning as being more important than playing-period or expressing-self-through-the-game.) Also, MElves, funnily enough, I can't help but think of all your World Chat shenanigans and assess you as Timmy/Spike. $:^ D

Seth, although I mentioned above that Melvin could arguably be a Johnny, (and if I weren't limited to trying to say each GM is one type, I'd easily say he's Spike/Johnny,) I mentioned for different reasons from yours. I'm in no way saying, "your reasons are invalid," heheh, but I do ask, did you read the new article (which I linked at the top of the OP)? The Combo Player is just one subtype of Johnny, and although that was the chief stereotype presented by Magic reps years ago, they eventually expanded Johnny to be one who expresses self through play (via different means, including one who seeks to find that wonky combo nobody else had).

Once again, maybe AI will show more of Mom and let us pick better parallel CH archetypes. $E^ b
(Of course, AI could just show us that all the GMs are even more well-rounded than the single profiles we're trying to find as it is.)

 

Yay for horoscopes

 

Arbitrary naming system to label established personal patterns vs. alleged personal predictions attempting to relate to arbitrary cosmic locations?

 

Melvin has more than 3 MP chars. I just spectated 3 of his games:

 

Wow, didn't even realise that he had multiple characters. Are they all Dwarves?

 

Melvin only uses dwarves, Amy only uses elves, Gary uses all races. There are 14 chars total between them.

 

That's really awesome. $:^ D

Good catch, Kalin -- and good job, Blue Manchu! $:^ D