AI and problematic cards

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by Pengw1n, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    This is hard to classify as bugs, as it's basically instructions on how the ai uses certain cards and generally acts in combat. I'd say the ai currently is pretty damn good - there's no cakewalking involved, but sometimes it just does weird stuff or no stuff at all. This is a thread to bring up some of those things!

    While Geomancers are able to handle aoe's in a great way it seem inable to play Everlasting Ground and Blooming Ground. Never seen them played, although there are lot of them in their decks and I've have redone these maps a lot. They also struggle with Telekinesis which they seem to be using unnecessarily on each other, and not even moving at times.

    If anyone has anything similar to contribute - or even contrary to this, join in!
     
  2. Gabbek

    Gabbek Orc Soldier

    I do like to point out extra movement cards (not their basic movement card drawn each round) in monster decks when they are only cards left - they very often will use them when that's their only 1-2 cards remaining in hand, often allowing you to pass turn and gain 1st move - it's really strange because sometimes they will just use the card and change the their facing.
     
  3. Gabbek

    Gabbek Orc Soldier

    Never seen those 2 cards being played.
     
  4. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    Could be that they are newly added to their decks and not implemented in the ai yet as i am fairly sure they didn't have them the first time i beat them.

    What do they do if i may ask?
     
  5. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    They've been there since my second playthrough at least (possibly first) - but never played. They're implemented, but yeah - might be missing ai instructions (reason for this thread). Think they renew durations and such for ground effects - don't have it written down and not in the wiki yet.
     
  6. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    Well that would make sense in their decks i guess.
     
  7. Zoorland

    Zoorland Goblin Champion

    Everlasting Ground adds 1 to the duration of all terrain attachments. Blooming Ground copies the terrain attachment of the target square into all adjacent squares that don't already have it. So basically you could cast Hot Spot and then target that square with Blooming Ground to fill all adjacent squares with lava... sort of a 2-turn combo for a faux Pool of Lava.

    ...but I only "know" this because I clicked on them in the card log after they were discarded. I also have never seen them actually be played.

    For that matter, in those adventures the geomancers routinely don't play terrain-altering cards in their hand just because I'm already standing on one. They throw down a Cave In and then just let me trudge over harmless difficult terrain for three turns while discarding Pool of Lavas and Pool of Acids and Wall of Fires and Cave Ins and Rock Falls and all sorts of other terrain-altering cards that actually would damage me if they used them. But the instant the terrain under my feet disappears or I step off of it then they suddenly start using those cards again.

    I've taken to bringing a Rock Fall down right in front of me and then moving on to it - I take no damage and have a few turns to get closer while they refuse to play any cards. Could use being looked it.
     
  8. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

    The AI needs to know what cards are supposed to do, which we do by tagging them. It sounds like Everlasting Ground and Blooming Ground aren't tagged properly.
     
  9. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    Well, "just" using a card to change facing is a perfectly valid action if they're afraid of letting you behind them.

    Using a movement card to do literally nothing could be a problem, though. I personally do such a thing as a stalling tactic (without hitting "pass" and risking having the round end) so there technically are circumstances where the computer might do this, but it does seem arbitrary at times.

    As to the not-using-terrain-cards-when-there's-already-terrain-out issue, yeah, the computer behaves blindly on this.
     
  10. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    Hey, Arcing Spark isn't behaving as I expected in the AI's hands. It could be that the AI doesn't know how to use it, or it could be implemented in a confusing manner.

    "Up to three different targets," "each target must be within three squares of another." The enemy shocked one of my team, then another who was three squares away. The third team member was a mere one square beyond the second target, which is valid by the text of the card. The AI did not, however, target the third one.

    I don't own this card, so I have to ask: is the implementation funny (i.e., counting "three squares" only off of the first target), or did the AI just miss a chance to shock me?
     
  11. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    Is there a chance the third target was outside of max range?
     
  12. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    Or does it take LoS into account for the third target, even when it maybe shouldn't? More of a card rule bug in that case I'd say.

    Edit: If it takes into account LoS from the caster for the third strike rather than LoS from second target, that should be adressed I feel. But again, card rules/bug I'd say.
     
  13. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    probably works like wall of fire so it takes both range and line of sight in to account
     
  14. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    Let's see . . . this was on the last gladiatorial arena level, with the wide-open floorplan, so there was no line-of-sight blocking terrain. Thanks to the wiki, I see the range is 8, which covers almost the entire map, and the targets were only about four squares distant (from the caster) anyway.

    Therefore, either the card is erroneously counting "three squares" only off of the first target (contrary to the description in the card rules), or the AI didn't think to chain the third target. And I'm back to asking: does anybody own the card? Can anyone check "who's got the glitch"?
     
  15. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    I got it but cant make the ai stand the way i want so i would need a pvp partner to test it
     
  16. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    I did a little checking on Arcing Spark - seems the card text is a bit of a lie, as the order it jumps to seems random (or LoS-based, see below) - so you can have 3 enemies within 3 squares of each other, but the 2nd target might make the 3rd out of range - at least if the 2nd one is OoS of the caster - it only jumps to people the caster can see it seems. I'd say it's more card rules/bug than ai - LoS for caster should only matter on initial target. Still interesting.
     
  17. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    Just saw an Acid Fiend use Telekines on a friendly Frost Sprite, and did nothing with the move, no changed facing or nothing - no encumberance in place or any terrain attachment below et c - just like geomancer. He did the same thing the turn after... however on the third turn he used it on me in a more proper way.
     
  18. Sharien

    Sharien Mushroom Warrior

    another one for weird ai behaviour...well as long as it wants to win
    i fought the last battle in the highway robbery...with the chieftain and his shaman...and screwed up somewhat...i was left with only my mage und 4 hp and the chieftain had some attacks left...each enough to kill me...and a movement card that should be able to get him in range for a hit...and he just passed...i actually expected a game over there and he didnt go for the killing blow and the shaman did not try to cut me off(tho i dont know if he still had moves)
     
  19. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    We've been informed before that Gary is programmed to pass sometimes at random. You got lucky and had this pass go in your advantage; other times, it messes with you.
     
    irongamer likes this.
  20. irongamer

    irongamer Orc Soldier

    Had a Kobold Priest kill a Kobold Warrior (had 1 hp left) with Unholy Frenzy in the Shaman's Hut.
     

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