Additional Races?

Discussion in 'Card Hunter General Chat' started by Ed Floyd, Jun 13, 2013.

  1. Ed Floyd

    Ed Floyd Kobold

    Currently we have dwarf, human, and elf but are there plans for any additional races?

    I'd like to play as trogs or goblins myself.
  2. Anticleon

    Anticleon Kobold

  3. Ed Floyd

    Ed Floyd Kobold

    My main interest is simply having some thematically different races to pick from. Keeping to the same racial differences (one equip, different move, different health pool) seems like the best way to add any new race.
  4. Anticleon

    Anticleon Kobold

    Unless you've got an idea for a new type of racial movement, it makes sense that monster races might just use the same racial movement as the other races do already - they're already balanced. Default racial move "shuffle" would be frustrating and unplayable. Default racial move 5 would be workable but probably hard to balance (I think that pre-beta elves had this originally and dominated MP).

    Similarly, as low/medium/high HP are taken already, the only new options are very low HP or very high HP - which are hard to balance.

    Standard options for monster races:
    Thematically, goblins should have fast movement and low hp like elves. Trogs are more like humans - not especially weak, tough, fast or slow, so medium HP and "run" default racial move would fit. If you go with that though how are you going to make goblins/trogs stand out mechanically? They'll be reskinned elves and humans with one different skill slot.

    Any ideas for goblin/trog racial skills?
  5. Evolved

    Evolved Mushroom Warrior

    A default scuttle (Free move 2) could be interesting for a playable race.
  6. Sayeth Aether

    Sayeth Aether Mushroom Warrior

    Goblins could have Free move 3 card as a default or cantrip 1 card
  7. The design space for Races seems a LOT narrower then for new classes, just by virtue of how the game is built. As Anticleon has said the starting three races have already covered the logical ends of the scale of Mobility vs. Health, and moreover the Racial Skills cover a very wide swath of ground already... Humans already own deck manipulation/card selection and team movement, Dwarves have taken the route of melee attack bonuses, damage absorption/blocks, and negating negative effects with Immovability, Shrug it Off and Toughness, and Elves have covered personal mobility, dodging, and spying on the opponent's hand. The racial skills (at least for Elf and Dward) are similarly balanced against the innate abilities of their race... Elves would be too good if they had damage negation options like the dwarves did and the dwarves would be bonkers if they got all of the elf mobility options in their racial slot. When you consider it this way you realize that Racial design for Card Hunter is very holistic... the pieces have to work together.

    As a design space, Classes on the other hand have the benefit of being composed of nothing more then an HP / advancement track with a large series of mix-and-match item slots. Mixing and matching those slots can create a lot of unique combinations even without inventing more skill categories... one of the dev diaries already mentions the possibility of some sort of Eldritch Knight variation that mixes wizard and fighter.

    Rather then try to shoehorn in the races that we want to see (and be disappointed that they don't appear because Blue Manchu's cardsmiths can't make them work in the existing framework), it might be more enlightening to start from a game designer's viewpoint and look at the things that HAVEN'T been done yet within the racial options... the open design space. A list might look something like this:

    = Innate Armor... Dwarves already have some of this in their Stoutness line of skills, but it could be expanded upon for a race of carapace creatures.
    = Adding negative cards in the enemies' deck, similar to Traveling Curse works... perhaps a psychic race, like githzerai.
    = Ranged Attack Bonuses (perhaps something that is close to a counterpart to Blind Rage, complete with the Vulnerability drawback).... some sort of ascetic, fragile race.
    = Innate Attacks (Natural weapons, such as breath attacks or bites... existing cards like Cone of Cold, Acid or Fire Spray might already be good for this).... suggests Dragonborn
    = Flight (this would almost definitely be best as a card reserved for the Racial Skills of a race rather then it's innate movement, as that would be too strong)... some winged race.
    = Scuttle (This would probably work just fine as an innate racial movement option).... seems like something halflings or similarly small race might have.
    = Teleport movement of some variety (perhaps as an innate movement, something similar to Teleport Self but with the Move side of the card reduced to 2)... a sprite or fairy race?
    = Innate Healing (perhaps coupled with Elf-like health totals, for a race that's fragile but with bounce-back ability.. balance would be a tough consideration) ... not sure what that might be.

    Does anyone else have any other suggestions?
  8. Megadestructo

    Megadestructo Shark Card

  9. Anticleon

    Anticleon Kobold

    Some thoughts on the Zoidberg race with a default scuttle move:
    • Z can't have Elf-level HP - fragile and slow is a sub-par combination;
    • Z can't have Dwarf-level HP - that would make Z a much better choice than Dwarf (except for niche racial skill uses)
    • Can Z have HP between Elf and Human? Probably not, still too fragile for a (free) move 2 race imo
    The other two options, Human-level HP and HP between Human and Dwarf, are viable - I don't know which would be better from the pov of ensuring that all races continue to be good choices.

    Z's racial skills? From the options umbralAeronaut mentions above, I think innate healing might be a good fit (especially if Z has Human-level HP). For me, innate regular armor isn't appealing except on a wizard - priest and warrior already get enough armor in their amour slots imo. Flight and teleport move seem like poor racial skill choices because we're already going with the "free move" thing for Z race. Innate attacks also seem a bit lame - the existing classes already get lots of attack cards.

    Thoughts on Z racial skills:
    • Innate healing;
    • Different mobility options (e.g. trait "+1 to step moves"; "move 6 and discard all attack cards" )
    • Different card discard options (e.g. Sucking Tentacles trait, "Z's attack causes target to discard their oldest card/random card on a roll of X+")
    • Different armor option (Rubbery Flesh, prevent X burn damage, prevent Y damage from lava/halve burn and fire damage) - hard to balance without experience
    • Different block option (Ink Spray: burst attack, centred on Z, that gives everyone an "attack fails unless you roll X+" status effect for 1 round - could also be a trait "Reflexive Ink Spray" that triggers on a roll of X+ on hitting Z in melee, giving everyone in the burst, or just the attacker, the blinded status.

    Does any of that sound interesting? My typical multiplayer set-up is 2 warriors plus a buffing priest so my ideas don't really take wizards into account.
  10. Gerry Quinn

    Gerry Quinn Goblin Champion

    My first thought on a creature that scuttles but is not necessarily a warrior is that it is hard to hit (good blocks and armour) and damages the mobility of creatures around it - maybe exuding some sort of gloop that it can ignore but that delays or encumbers (could be via terrain or character attachments)nearby creatures or enemies.
  11. Anticleon

    Anticleon Kobold

    Rubbery Flesh: Armor, Armor 2, "This armor always prevents half the damage from acid, electricity or fire. Keep." 3+ (like resistant hide but less element protection for balance)
    Grasping Tentacles: Block. Reaction 1: Block melee, projectile. Attacker discards a random card. Keep. 5+.

    Maybe the gloop, per Gerry's suggestion, could be:
    a block like Hard To Pin Down, that allows Z to move X (1-3) on a successful block, and encumber 1-3 the attacker for Y rounds (encumber would have to be 2 or 3 to be much use to warriors and priests - you can already get 3 Hard To Pin Down on one shield;
    a trait that gives all Z's block cards "move 1 on success" and "encumber 1-2 the attacker for X rounds" (more useful to warriors/priests but poor for wizards);
    Goo Blast: Attack. Projectile. Damage 5. Range 6. Burst 2. Encumber 2. Duration 2. (like frost jolt but burst 2);
    a trait that gives creatures/enemies encumber 1 when they come within X squares of Z; or
    a trait that, at the start of each round, gives creatures/enemies within X squares encumber 1.
  12. SurgeonFish

    SurgeonFish Automaton Moderator Staff Member

    Hope to see a piscean race arise to aid adventurers on their epic quests.
  13. A race that scuttles or scampers would be a balancing challenge, mainly because they┬┤d break so many map rules in both single and multiplayer. For example, in Bridge, you can just cruise the river all day long and juke everyone

    I feel that, if more races, were to be added, they could be in groups of three and could also have the Walk/Run/Dash hierarchy, but with different racial skills. For instance, it could well be Orcs/Dragonkin/Sprites, and they could have, respectivelly: Stunning, Bashing and AoE/Fire Damage and elemental resistance/Trickery and Teleports, for instance and as an example. Rather than complicate themlseves with more movement cards, i find it easier to balance around the ones you already have and find more interesting ways to exploit them

    The one different skill lot would mean a world of difference, believe it or not. Sometimes, you could really use Flame Spit over Shuffle, Team!, just saying

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