Elf wizards are no longer the worst class in the game!

Discussion in 'Card Hunter General Chat' started by Magic Elves, Mar 1, 2015.

?

Who is the worst class currently?

  1. Dwarf Priests

    4.8%
  2. Elf Wizards still suck the worst, Magic Elves is wrong again

    85.7%
  3. Human Warriors (Only here so it's not just a choice between the top two)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Let's add Human Wizards in as a late contender, why not

    9.5%
  1. Magic Elves

    Magic Elves Thaumaturge

    I know that all of you clicked this thread because the title questioned one of the core beliefs that we all hold true to our hearts, that elf wizards are awful. All of us remember getting the starter party, using it for a while, and eventually not using the elf in exchange for another warrior/better wizard. Maybe some of us came back to that wizard as a novelty, to show people we could win with this awful awful class. However, and this is some big news...

    Elf Wizards have (indirectly) gotten better.

    Now, there's been a multitude of changes that made this possible, so I'm going to list them.

    #1: Movement is no longer horribly broken, or at least not as horribly broken as before.
    If you were around when Nimble Strike still moved 4 and hit for 6 damage, you have been playing too much Cardhunter know why no one used elves, and it was because any old dwarf could leap across the field and do a nontrivial amount of damage. They still do just that now, but at least people have the option of doing something else, like using elves to leap across the field and do a slightly less painful amount of damage.

    #2: No more Obliterating Bludgeon.
    A lot of the newer players might not know what this card is, so I'll give a quick recap. In the old days, Pulverizing Bludgeon didn't exist. Instead, all the items with it instead had a card known as Obliteration bludgeon, which did 17 damage and had no shieldbreaking effect. Combined with the fact that two of this card was on a weapon for two minor tokens, and elf wizards were in very real danger of being one-shotted. However, thanks to some decks that abused this card to its maximum potential, Blue Manchu decided enough was enough, and made it an A.I. exclusive card. This fact, along with the change of Almighty Hack to Pulverizing Hack, led to the third big change...

    #3: Bejeweled Shortsword is now the strongest weapon in terms of damage.

    We've all know that Bejeweled Shortsword is very good. Most of us probably use it as well, so I won't have to tell you it has four 11 damage attacks and two 7 damage step attacks whoops I told you anyway. The key here is that with this being the new common attack, getting hit with two Powerful Hacks means that it doesn't matter if your health is 17 or 21 for most armorless characters, which closes the gap between human and elf wizards slightly.

    #4: Elf Warriors are much more popular.
    With Elf Warriors jumping around all over the place, dwarf wizards aren't going to have a chance to outrun them, leaving human wizards and elf wizards. The problem with human wizards, in my opinion, is that their racials quite frankly are abysmal for wizarding. Elf racials aren't too much better, but they let you either run away or trait cycle for cheap.

    #5: Bursts make wizard battles more positioning based.
    Before Burst attacks became popular with the advent of AotA, wizard battles were a simple affair. You lined up, casted spells, and tried not to get stuck in terrain. Almost all wizard needed line of sight to each other, and elf wizards' movement didn't help at all here. Now, things are different. With burst attacks, one wizard can easily get the drop on another, and mobility actually has a use in escaping to an area you can attack instead. Naturally, elf wizards are the most mobile.


    Of course, elf wizards are still going to be a challenge to use, with many traditional problems still around. Still, it's time to pull that old figurine out of the model box, dust it off, and bring it back into a party outside of campaign. Elf wizards used to be the punching bag of Cardhunter, but with a little tactics they can become fierce guerrilla fighters, hitting the opponents and retreating before they get caught.

    Thanks, Blue Manchu, for balancing what I thought was almost impossible to balance.
     
    Xayrn, UpstartPuppet, CT5 and 5 others like this.
  2. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    I use an elf wizard in a 1600 build for some of the reasons outlined here. I think they still are deeply disadvantaged.

    But I think this is basically bull:
    Even if you stack up on Bejeweled, there'll be plenty of times you don't have 2 Powerful attacks in hand—and then the damage of your other attacks matters for this calculation. Keeping in mind that one of the most efficient weapon combos for damage is Bejeweled+Bejeweled+Strongarm, let's take a look:

    11 damage Powerful attack + Vicious Thrust = 18 damage
    11 damage Powerful attack + Strong Hack = 19 damage

    Each of these pairs of attacks kills an elf wizard, and only an elf wizard. You know, FWIW :) *shrug*
     
    ParodyKnaveBob and karadoc like this.
  3. Magic Elves

    Magic Elves Thaumaturge

    It is mostly bull, hence the "Slightly" I put in there near the end. I should really have wrote reason 2.5 :p
     
    ParodyKnaveBob and Flaxative like this.
  4. Vakaz

    Vakaz Guild Leader

    :eek: While some of these factors may be true, I do not think they have made enough of an impact to change the Elf wizard's sad state as the worst race/class combo in the game. In fact, I think the increasing popularity of elf warriors and burst has made elf wizards even -less- viable in MP.

    Since you got me thinking about it, I went ahead and organized the classes into tiers based on those tier-rankings for DnD/Pathfinder/etc. IMO of course, but I think it's fairly accurate.

    Tier 1 (Competitive Staple): Dwarf Warrior, Dwarf Wizard
    Tier 2 (Competitive with specific items/builds): Human Priest, Dwarf Priest, Elf Warrior
    Tier 3 (The best at some things, but those things aren't very competitive): Human Warrior, Elf Priest
    Tier 4 (Basically invalidated by other characters): Elf Wizard, Human Wizard
     
  5. Magic Elves

    Magic Elves Thaumaturge

    I only see a few debatable things. Dwarf Priest could fit into Tier 2 for certain, but Human Priests have mostly taken over its spot, which means it's kinda debatable whether it's Tier 2 or 4. I also should probably argue that elf wizards belong in Tier 3 because they're best at running away, as that's kind of the point of the thread.
     
  6. peonprop

    peonprop Thaumaturge

    They are also the best at dying. Am I missing something, why are dwarf priests bad? Not the greatest vamps maybe but that's about it.
     
  7. Youbo

    Youbo Orc Soldier

    Personally, I don't see the point of a dwarf priest. Elf priests are better for vamping and human priest are better at support. If you want a tank,take a warrior instead.
    I don't think I will ever use a dwarf priest unless in special circumstance like triple duel.

    I used to think elf wizards are the worst too untill I had a casual battle with Magic Elves earlier today. I saw some reasons of why the extra mobility is worth the tiny hp. If his wizards were dwarves instead, I am pretty sure I would have won. While I believe humans would have worked just as good, I don't see elf wizards as the worst race/class combination anymore.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
    ParodyKnaveBob and Magic Elves like this.
  8. Dwarf wizards have 50% more hp than the elf wizards. Elf wizards are still the worst class in the game.
     
    Vakaz and Lord Feleran like this.
  9. Vakaz

    Vakaz Guild Leader

    They're ideal for supporting wizards. If you want buffs, but don't need the support skills of the human priest, the dwarf priest is stronger. Of the builds I have hit 1800 with since the last set of balance changes, two used dwarf priests to great effect (a 1/1/1 and a buff/burst team).
     
    Magic Elves likes this.
  10. Youbo

    Youbo Orc Soldier

    He was playing 3 wizards with lot of lava,control and movements. They kept evading my warrior despite move,team! cards and my wizard was out-gunned. The one I managed to catch went down quickly. Whether they die in 2 or 3 attacks would not matter much because if I catch one,its dead and if they were dwarves, I would have caught them all pretty fast. My point was just that elf wizards could do ok in some niche builds but like I said below, I agree that elf wizards are the most overshadowed race/class combination again now.


    Ah, of course! I did not think of that. I guess that show how I never played ranked without a warrior. Yeah, I agree with you now, elf wizards are the worsts.
     
    Vakaz likes this.
  11. Sir Veza

    Sir Veza Farming Deity

    I saw the title and thought BM might have introduced Gnome Cobblers or something similar.
     
    Vakaz and Pawndawan like this.
  12. Magic Elves

    Magic Elves Thaumaturge

    Great, now I'm going to have to change my vote to me being wrong as well, meaning it's a unanimous decision that I am incorrect. Not going to stop me beating people up with the worst class in the game though!
     
  13. Getorix

    Getorix Orc Soldier

    I remain hopeful that elf wizards will be fixed for realz with concrete solutions meant to help elf wizards rather than elves in general. Elven warriors don't need any extra help, clearly. I'm also hoping they get fixed before this avatar at left <--- becomes available for purchase...because it's bad ass...and I WANT to play with it.
     
  14. Robauke

    Robauke Guild Leader

    Bring the astronomical hp of dwarf wizards down to something reasonable (0), voila, elf wizards are relatively better.
     
  15. Vakaz

    Vakaz Guild Leader

    I think that if HP values are going to be adjusted, it would be better to give weaker class/race combos -more- HP rather then taking it away from the better combos. Less backlash from dwarf lovers. I don't think BM is too keen on adjusting HP values at all though, so I'm not sure it matters :oops:
     
  16. MagicLance

    MagicLance Mushroom Warrior

    Hi folks. Been a while since I posted on these cool forums.
    Towards the topic. Since I have played this over many years now I know the changes that occurred over that time period.
    In my views the Elf Wizard class has become a bit better due to the things mentioned in the first post. I am currently playing with a pure Elf group (fighter, wizard and priest) and I am doing rather well.
    Sure a Dwarf group would be better due to the high HP but I manage around that with the special movement stuff for elves by trying not to take damage at all.
    Works best on large fields of course.

    Since I am low on time I am sorry to go off track now by praising Blue Manchu for their awesome upkeep here. The newest Move Manticore is the best so far. Beat it on the first try after month of absence but that was mostly luck I guess.
    This game is rather similar to my favorite private game site Mud and Blood.net even if the topic is totally different. With that I say URB (Unfair Random Brutal) On!!
    BTW I voted for the Human Wizard as the worst class due to the mostly useless human skill cards.
     
    ParodyKnaveBob likes this.

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