[FEEDBACK] Monster Hunt (League)

I do agree that a large variance of cards might be more interesting. In the older version the Chupas had a streamline deck (they are monsters) but the hunters had SUPER random decks... they could draw movement cards for like 3 turns in a row. I was trying something different from the norm where the cards are fairly limited (16 per hunter) to see how it would play out and what it would be like. Bar changing the map heavily, which really isn't a viable option due to the amount of time it would take to re-balance it from scratch, I'll probably just go with the balance changes I've received from feedback and see how it turns out. Doubt I'll be changing it again though since I'd rather focus my energies on the global balance changes (and still trying to get a job).

I do feel that the current distribution does let you play the odds as some card draws are very weak (like getting Jump Back on your Archer when they aren't attacking or drawing Clumsy Chop on the Dwarf), but the odds are probably too easily calculated due to the smaller deck size. I was going for a feel of some type of tricky mind game where you have to play and out bluff your opponent and either bluff to go for the VP or bluff and attack the hunters. It might not work exactly as planned, but I feel like it does have some interesting twists and some room to explore over other leagues that feel super random.

 

Monster hunt is strictly on luck and i like more a a non luck based event and also i only once once only by a timeout. It always seems some people get 1st while the rest get 5th. Also i would like killing a monster/ hunter only be one VP. Most people alwways go to the sperman and the hunter first because they're easy to kill compared to the dwarven warrior. Also, let there be a mighty hack( the 11 dmg one) for the warrior. Make Jump Back no keep and make dodge keep. Also, can you make a league that makes players have the same exact cards? Thank you.

 

I'd wager that it is one of the least luck based leagues. I know a few people who have played it quite a bit and win nearly every time. You say some people get 1st while the rest get 5th? Wouldn't that be indicative of skill over luck? Unless I'm confused by what you're saying.

The problem with changing the VP worth means the game could end in a stalemate. This is a problem I tacked in testing, and there's no easy solution without completely changing the structure and/or hunters.

I do agree that the hunters need more life and I'll be buffing them. Giving a Mighty Hack to the dwarf would make the game even more luck based if he managed to draw it early.

The thing about Jump Back is if you don't want the ability of it, you can always get rid of it for 1 movement. Having Dodge (keep) instead of Skip (not keep) is very problematic if the enemy can get really lucky rolls. In testing I once had a game where someone got so many successful Dodge rolls they went across half of the entire map just from that card.

I assume you mean everyone has the same cards and starts with all their cards? I do think having a league where everyone starts with a full hand of cards with a very small deck would be interesting. It would probably be extremely tough to balance and would ultimately boil down to die rolls, but it is definitely something to consider exploring.

 

For whatever it's worth, the original Quick Draw test was like this, and it didn't boil down to die rolls so much as the luck of what cards you got to pick from. So yes.

 

Reducing the number of fly access only tiles to one (so only one victory square too) can be a solution but I can't picture the dwarf being able to chase the chupa on the loose.

 

Yeah, that was what it was in testing. Originally it was a single VP spot but rarely they'd get 2 Chupas to the end and have nothing to do except die with the other one (or just run away constantly) which doesn't feel good at all. Plus, it easier to get 1 Chupa to a VP spot to tie an enemy. If someone manages to get both their Chupas they should be rewarded as such.

I'll probably solidify the balance changes after the next two Monster Hunt leagues come out if no one has any more feedback or ideas. Right now it is looking like buffing the hunters to survive a bit more (+1 hp and 1 upgraded card each). Most likely will be the last balance change though since you can iterate forever, but eventually you have to just say that you're done and move on. =)

 

I've only played the league once, currently doing my second playthrough. I like the idea of the league. Can't really comment on balance.

 

Well, let me know if you have any thoughts after you play it more. It is really challenging to create a league with multiple paths to victory, asymmetrical playstyle, and balancing skill over randomness. Been trying to do all of that at once is pretty difficult, but I feel it is near where it should be.

 

For what it is woth here is my 2 cents :
I believe the hunters indeed need a buff, but imho their most problematic point is the "draw 1". I firmly believe the chuppas win because their card advantage is hard to overcome. Between the maze of mind variant (i love that card ) and the "draw 4" they can really just outcontrol the hunters on draws alone.

Once that is said tho, great job on this league. I really like it, it's the one i had most fun with since the flying weapon one. Keep using your time so well, and huge thanks for that.

 

Thanks. It is hard to give the hunters more draws without them being really, really strong. The Dwarf used to get 2 draws a turn, which I might add, but the problem is testing it to make sure the Dwarf isn't insanely strong and can't instantly win the game based on good draws. Wish there was a way for me to rapidly iterate and make changes, but unfortunately I have to go through Jon to change any of the card listing and then the game has to be taken down to patch. That's a lot of work for a minor league. So most likely this will be the last balance change for the map. Going from 1 card to 2 cards per turn could dramatically shift the game and I'm not sure I want to do that without the ability to iterate more on it. I am definitely considering it though.

 

I think it works quite okay.
I have seen all kinds of ways the game played out.
Usually the winner kills one hunter and one monster and it depends a lot of good positioning and that seems balanced.
The Monsters can only use one attack each and that is advantage enough for the hunters.
It is already hard to reach the VP, if the Hunters get even stronger this will all be about killing and a bit boring.

 

The idea is to make the hunters less likely to die as to curb people jumping on the hunters and going for a quick kill. I want it to be more about the Chupas attacking a very isolated target for a kill or going for the VP -- not just going straight into the hunters due to their large damage and the hunters low life. The damage the hunters deal will barely go up (spearman stays the same, crossbow gains 3 damage total, dwarf gains 3+1 damage total).

Right now if someone gets an Infected Bite followed by an Invigorating Touch that's 6+6 damage with another 3+3 for poison over the following turns. If the hunters gained a life or two then they could survive a full turn more to attack -- unless the Chupas stay around and attack again to finish them off.

 

Only people who play really bad would lose 2 hunters and if you go for a hunter you lose one monster if your opponent knows his positioning and the decks of the league.
So it depends what happens next and that is the interesting part. Can your reach the VP, do you retreat to get your hunters enough time to make a kill or do you risk another attack to force a move on the other board. And on the hunter side you must decide if you go for defense into the woods and make a choice if you save up movement or attack.
I think it is interesting atm, but it does not matter at all what will change, since it is a mirror match.

 

I do believe i have seen monsters group draw 1.5 cards. maybe thta's te most balanced ways for hunter ?

 

Drawing fractional numbers just rounds up. It is only important when there are large groups due to them losing a portion of the draws per turn. Like in Graveyard Gambol where there are 3 Zombies each giving 0.5 cards each. With all 3 alive you're drawing 1.5 (or 2 cards), while when one dies you're down to 1 card per turn.

 

Thanks for all the feedback. The following is the changes I've put forward for the next (and probably last) version:

Dwarf:
HP: 22 -> 23
-2 Charge
+2 Brutal Charge
-1 Hack
+1 Strong Chop

Spearman:
HP: 18 -> 19
-1 Block
+1 Parry

Archer:
HP: 15 -> 16
-1 Run
+1 Blunt Missile

 

After having finally being able to play MH, it is by far my favorite precon league. Hopefully Jon lets Stexe make more (provided they're just as good <3).

Everything felt fluid. The hunters seem to be a bit weak, but shouldn't they, I mean they're fighting legendary monsters. The Chupas are really fun to control, and fighting against them is an exciting challenge as well. This was really well put together.

 

Well the hunters still need more HP.

 

The changes haven't gone through yet. They won't until next patch and I have no idea how long that will be.

 

Not until the balance changes to the rest of the game are more or less finalized
It'll be a big patch!