[Feedback] Upcoming Balance Change MEGATHREAD

The smoke bombs on the warriors or priests is a very nice idea, specially because wizards can get little use of them, while they could be very important for melee teams. I realize that on the maps that have only one VP or all of them are in the center could be problematic, as you would only have to get there with one of your warriors, throw a smoke bomb in the middle of that square and just camp. But still, wizards would have a lot of ways to counter it (if the smoke bombs are purge 1 as suggested, not if they are purge 2 because that would make them very powerful) just throwing some lava/illusion/water/acid terrain on the front. The card could be called "Small Smoke Bomb" or something like that.

 

Cones and bursts go through smoke bombs right now, yes?

 

Cones go through, bursts burst through but centre must be somewhere where you have LoS to.

 

Even a block that exploded into a smoke bomb type effect when it triggered could be cool....

 

Tested Smoke Bomb vs Wall of Illusion and Flash Flood. Doesn't seem like a burst 1 would work and Flash Flood cannot be overridden. Only option seems to be casting it between the characters acting like a pseudo-WoS. fyi: SB is from DWiz and WoIs from warrior... aye, cheat used



2 for 1 cards are a real pita...

 

Sounds good. I have a pretty detailed list on suggested balance fixes, but I'll hold off until I see the next patch changes.

 

Hmm a 3x3 smokebomb definitely sounds like an interesting proposition for warriors and priests.
Could even make a shield that has a block or two that casts a 3x3 smokebomg around the character if it is triggered. Course that could be a seriously double edged sword if say your healer really needed to cast a line of sight heal on them, they blocked a punishing bolt and now there is no line of sight for anybody

All praise the Talc Shield

Still I dunno, at the same time something about the idea of melee fighters being able to actively smokebomb their way out of a majority of terrain effects doesn't sit terribly well with me.

 

That is the one issue that does make it a little too favorable for the melee characters. Of course I HATE being abused by lava, so I would be fine with it, but I respect that some people play wizards on purpose.

 

Well, it could be a special type of terrain so that they can't override other terrain attachments with these special smoke bombs, they could only be thrown in an empty square. That would still be good for melee defense while warriors and priests won't be able to erase lava, illusionary terrain, etc (because wizards have to stay stronger than melee in this matter somehow).

 

Yeah I wouldn't want it to overlap lava or other terrain either. Hadn't thought of that interaction.

So essentially a number of us seem to have accepted the theory that Elven warriors are potentially supposed to be able to beat encumber wizards. The changes to encumber seem to support this theory. By limiting encumber to a specific card it still freezes dwarves but elves would retain movement via their dash. This would leave dwarf warrior teams weak to wizards, but stronger than the squishy elves. Something like: Elven warriors > 3 wizards > Dwarf/Human warriors > Elven warriors.....

- Jacques has smartly been trying to attack this problem with builds. I think this deserves more focus.

This to me is probably the best type of solution that can work in the wizard vs warrior design issue. Compare that to the current meta, where the balancing point depended on your access to nimble strike and hard to pin. Once a warrior (any race) got enough of those cards, than they were the better option. Eventually leading to an MP world of dwarf warriors.

But, can there be that much difference when all that separates an elven warrior and a dwarf warrior is 3 cards? It needs to be tested more, but I'm struggling with this limitation of the design. If we propose changes that just make all warriors better, we'll just end up seeing dwarves again. Seems to me the goal should be to (mainly) improve elven warriors odds against wizards.

 

I see your point. On the other hand, I'd expect the smoke effect to have a significant cost (probably as much or more for a small one as for a wizard's larger one), so you'd have to give up something good in order to carry each one, probably couldn't carry many, and would need to have it show up at the right time. If it is Burst 1, Range 0 it would only affect that character or someone adjacent. In that sense, I don't think it would weaken control wizards appreciably.

 

What if it wasn't directly playable? Make it a "[3+] Block Any, Smoke Burst 1" (the Any is so it's usable against ranged melee like trees).

 

That's why my initial suggestion was the shield proc, maybe even pull an Absorbing Shield type deal with an "if this blocks magic" qualifier. Tho I did like the idea of having it its own class of terrain effect that doesn't overwrite other "higher level" terrain effects. I don't think a proc would really bother me if it overwrote terrain effects since it is something that is somewhat outside their control. I'd be fine with something that was more controllable as long as it didn't overwrite wizard terrain effects. I do feel like warriors could use something to mess with line of sight especially where maps can be so wizard friendly but I don't think warriors should be able to effectively out wizard a wizard when it comes to terrain modification.

 

One possibility for adding counter-play to 3DC would be to make stone feet effects all allies (like mass frenzy). To balance the added power I would then make illusion terrain purge enemy attachments. It seems like these changes could lead to some interesting interactions.

I would also like to give cantrips to barge (and maybe make it push 3).

Another change could be replace Gusts of War with Swap. Swap is much better in combination with warriors, can lead to very interesting positions, and is hard for 3DC to abuse.

 

One more idea would be to change Wings of Faith so that it makes the target untargettable by characters more than 4 squares away.

 

A few balance updates just hit the test server. Check them out and please continue giving us feedback
http://www.cardhunter.com/2014/08/balance-changes-round-two/

 

I think the changes to draw limit, winds, nimble strike and cleansing cards are pretty good.

My first thought with the encumber rules though is that you may have marginalised humans a little. If you are going to keep stacking, it might be better to reduce the encumber on frost jolt to 1 instead of 2. That way dwarves are slowed to 1 with one encumber effect, humans with 2 and elves with 3.

My only other concern is that with the updated changes to Randimar's you have just encouraged your player base to farm single player again instead of participating in an arguably more fun activity like multiplayer.

To put it into perspective this is how the changes will affect my thought process and how I approach the game (and I assume a good portion of the new players primarily interested in pvp).

1. Log into the game on Monday (or whatever day Randimar's resets).
2. Check the store and see what entices me (I currently only have a handful of legendaries so chances are there will be at least 1 or 2).
3. Weigh up the benefit of playing SP for gold or MP for fun.
4. Most likely end up spending the week grinding SP for fear of regretting picking up said items while at the same time getting bored of the game because grinding presents no real challenge.

The beauty of having Randimar's reset daily with a significant amount of legendary items was not only did it allow new players to catch up but more importantly it meant that you didn't feel like you had to farm constantly. If you missed a great item one day it wouldn't be such a big deal because it wouldn't be too long before it would be available again. With these changes if you miss an item you might be waiting up to 20 weeks until it pops around again.

 

SP players aren't going to play MP no matter what Randimar's is like. That's a complete pipe dream. Playing against other people is so stressful for many that they simply won't do it. We know this from the experience of many, many dame developers. There have even been MP only games where a majority of the people who bought the game never once launched MP.

 

I have to say that, at first sight (theory is sometimes different than practice so we'll have to see what happens), I love most of the changes. I'm not going to discuss right now (I will later) which ones I like more and which ones I don't, I just wanted to say that it's great to see our feedback being valued, which we can see right now, as plenty of the new build's changes come directly from our own suggestions and testing. Thanks, BM!