I've been reading a bunch on balance feedback thread about how firestorm is dead now, it will take forever to grind for gold esp. on kobold mines, the most popular method for getting treasure. So I decided to copy my exact same fs farming party over to the test server, do a regular run through Diamonds of the Kobolds - The White Star - The Defense of Woodhome on normal server and record the time, then follow on test server and see how the times compared. First off here's my kobold farming party : Kobold Melters Grungdu Level 20 Dwarf Wizard Staff Of The Inferno Staff Of The Inferno Chartwell's Ring Magma Scepter Chartwell's Ring Azgul's Orb Firehide Robes Corian's Boots Untrained Toughness Focused Pyromancy 1 x Resistant Hide 13 x Firestorm 1 x Burning Fingers 4 x Combustible 1 x Parry 2 x Officer's Harness 4 x Ember Burst 1 x Reliable Hide Armor 1 x Quick Step 1 x Shrug It Off 2 x Short Perplexing Ray 3 x Firestarter 1 x Volcano 1 x Glob Of Flame Orduissa Level 18 Dwarf Wizard Staff Of The Inferno Igneous Scorchstaff Xipil Ring Gaudekki's Orb Chartwell's Ring Brin's Storm Locket Firehide Robes Xalanen's Boots Untrained Toughness Novice Pyromancy 2 x Magma Spray 2 x Instant Burn 1 x Resistant Hide 10 x Firestorm 1 x Ember Spray 1 x Forgetfulness 1 x Zap 3 x Combustible 1 x Healing Dash 1 x Parry 1 x Shimmering Aura 1 x Officer's Harness 2 x Ember Burst 1 x Reliable Hide Armor 1 x Shrug It Off 1 x Short Perplexing Ray 2 x Firestarter 1 x Volcano 3 x Glob Of Flame Finnius Level 20 Human Priest St. Portia's Maul Rapier Of Misfortune Dark Chain Shirt Twisting Shield Bertha's Big Clogs St. Bethan's Charm Necalli Charm Flax's Thirsty Vial Trainee Command Trained Cleansing 1 x Healing Benediction 1 x Help The Weak 3 x Strong Bludgeon 1 x Team Heal 1 x Hard To Pin Down 1 x Enervating Touch 1 x Hardy Mail 1 x Vulnerable 6 x Consuming Touch 1 x Holy Presence 2 x Nimble Strike 1 x Walk, Team! 1 x Purge 2 x Pushback Parry 1 x Invigorating Touch 1 x Officer's Harness 1 x Bloodied Block 2 x Reliable Mail 1 x Walk 3 x Bad Luck 1 x Fiery Stab 1 x Mass Frenzy 1 x Sapping Touch 1 x Spear Of Darkness The results : Pre-Balance Firestorm 3 module Run 9:20 Well in line with my normal expectation for this run ( I have timed it before) Post-Balance Testserv Firestorm 3 module Run 11:12 To be fair, I hadn't run through these quests yet so I had to click through the narration as well that might have added a few seconds so there goes true scientific method out the window. Total time difference : 1:52 Analysis : While it does add a bit extra time, its not nearly as bad as some are making out. A few more runs would be required to get a true picture of avg time but seriously didn't notice a huge shift with new firestorm only having 5 range. This is not meant to be a comprehensive overview just providing some actual testing perspective on the issue. I guess the reason I made this thread was reading some of the hyperbole regarding fs changes in campaign, feel free to try out the same thing with your own kobold farming parties and see how the times compare.
People are going to make a big deal out of it, till they actually try it. I think once they play it and put more time into it they should then give some real feedback.
I got pretty much the same results on the kobold mines. The levels where you face longer ranged attacks from enemies who want to stay distant (demons, some slimes, acorn shooters, etc.) are a stone beeyatch. I always had to maneuver on most of these anyway, but having to herd the drongos into range 5 without dying before they do is a real challenge. Using a frenzy or nimbus priest and step warriors on these levels got noticeably harder too.
9 minutes for 3 Kobold battles?! Grab 3 wizards, set animation speed to 1000 and do them under 2 minutes Also, back when all my FS items fit on 2 wizards, I played 3rd char as an Inspiration Priest. It's sick how many of them fit on her using only 2 tokens.
No, 9 minutes for the three level 6 adventures (the two mines and the treasure hunt). And if you reduce your browser window to half the screen it can go even faster.
I really need to look into that setting of animation speed, I just pick the max on the options. 2 minutes is indeed awesome for 3 modules but I'm not saying its the best fs deck just a comparison so by that logic your time should increase to I dunno 2 min 10 sec ?? And a sidenote inspiration priest prob won't work with the new draw limits on test server.
Hmm, I'll give it a try but I don't see how it would help. Time comes from loading screens and clickings through FS.
Some animations are faster like armor ones. Can't exactly explain why but I noticed it when I have two poker tables on the upper half of the screen and mines speed farming on the lower half.
Yeah in my opinion it won't have much impact on the gold run levels. But like Veza already mentioned it will remove a lot of overall levels from a daily farm routine. A lot of the mid to higher level boards I was clearing with firestorm won't be an option with the new version. Other types of builds should work just fine, but won't be as fast. The change doesn't really bother me. I actually have posts back in the beta arguing for this type of nerf, I've never cared for these global spells that don't need LOS.
Summarizing thoughts, there were three concerns in SP related to the FS changes. - gold farming: apparently still viable, though requires you to wait a couple turns for the kobolds to swarm your wizards - module farming: no longer viable when enemies are non-melee, as they attack from outside FS range - 1hp quests: no longer viable I've stopped module farming because the rewards are too low. I'll be sad if the loot fairy ends up on one of those modules, however, as I'll have to do more clicking to get the prize. I do still gold farm, so I'm glad to see that it will remain largely unaffected, though the extra passing will be a slight annoyance. I've completed all 1hp quests except elder mind, which was already impossible with my equipment set (no 2xFS arcane items, only 1xLavastaff). The change will suck for everyone else, but hey, it'll make me more of a legend/old-timer. ^_^ (<-- Actually, that's just me trying mask my sentimentality through flippancy... I'm a little sad that the newbies won't be able to arrive at the same masterful sense of achievement.)
This one made perfect sense to me. I never liked CCGs, but I played and DM'd tons of old-school OD&D and AD&D. A Fireball spell indoors fills 33,100 cubic feet, and I singed many a party who didn't realize how much that covers. I've never seen CH map scale discussed, but it has the retro feel, and looks like fireball (i.e. Firestorm, not that piddly-assed computer-based CH Fireball) should fill any map with a ceiling. It has been my favorite connection to old-school gaming in CH, and I hate to see it go. I wonder how many CH players know the common uses for a d12 back in the day? Well said, and a great sentiment.
So I could definitely farm better with a faster computer than this old vista laptop. It can't load a scenario in 35 sec.
Anyone testing Flash Of Agony on these maps? It seems that would work better than the nerfed Firestorm on those maps.
What I also think this continues to highlight is - would it be so bad to have a few other options for gold effectiveness rather than just 2-3 level 6 maps? Some quick ideas - a) coins per monster and/or per stage and/or per map, unrelated to a treasure slot - ideally taking into account difficulty & level b) add a spot that always yields a treasure on the loot screen(s) so every map played can pay off with a nice surprise c) at least for *treasure* level actually matters, increase value based on it, tho I'd like selling equip to factor this/sell better too
