[Comment] Multiplayer kind of ruined my Single Player campaign...

Just wanted to mention here, that for me and my old P&P crew, it was always about the story. We made horrifically flawed characters, rarely ever advanced them significantly through campaign gains. But we sure had a blast running around the game world. Was one guy who never showed up to a gaming session with fewer than 15 characters prepared, and a few times we managed to kill them all off before the end of the night and he had to make more on the spot to re-join the party.

Nothing to do with the current "debate," but as Dragn said, it is really over and down to silliness anyway

 

That question is moot because new players don't understand the system and also have never had a ton of level 18 items. My reaction and their reaction are completely different at this point.

And I maintain that ruining the magical feeling of exploration and progression is the problem. This is done by dropping end game content into their inventory -- no matter how bad that end game content is. There is a reason people don't like knowing what happens at the end of the movie before they see it...

That matters not. All the player sees is an item that does far more damage than what they have... that they can't use nor will they be able to use until they spend multiple hours just trying to level up to get there causing them to be dissatisfied with the other weapons they get along the way that they otherwise would have been very happy about.

Funny, I thought it was about having fun. Some people have more fun exploring the game and progressing with their characters than worrying about levels.

Because until you get there, you've been shown that every item you find in the game is not as good as the one that has been dropped into your inventory that would fils your need if the game let you use it. "Why is it in my inventory if I didn't find it and can't use it?" (as I have been asked by friends.)

No, it encourages the, "Wow, I need to get to that level so I can buy the item and use it. Everything else is crap, thats exactly what I need for my character."

WoW isn't the best example however because it is rarely a single player experience and draws a different kind of player.

Right, so it allows the players to explore the game and these 'sidegrades' in a fun way.

Why would you want to explore 'sidegrades' if you know there is a directly superior item you already have in your inventory? Yes, there are tokens on it, but that doesn't matter. I now don't want to change my play style because I know what I have works, all I need is the better weapon (like the one sitting in my inventory) to be better at what I'm doing right now. No need to explore and change tactics because of the sidegrades... Just have to get to use that item. And then it leads to, "Gah, I've leveled up 6 levels already and now have blue talents to spend but when the hell do I get two yellow ones for the weapon I've wanted to use since level 5? Screw this, not willing to spend this much time on this stupid game."

It becomes about achievement rather than exploration and fun to these people. You don't have to see it that way, but they do. A potential loyal, paying customer and their good word of mouth are lost. That's what's important.

Not sure how you can say that most people will act this way especially when you are commenting on a thread where the OP expected the opposite. Based on the number of bug reports filed by people who were confused as to why their campaign inventory was flooded with the MP items I'd say it would be at least a wash.

I'm not suggesting a toggle button, I'm suggesting hiding them entirely if no character in the roster can use them. They want to see and sell them, they can go into multiplayer, where they got them, and can do that just fine.

I would say that when one of the items is unlocked/viewed in single player that a message be displayed about it though.

It's the last store to be unlocked. I believe at around lvl 15.

You are pretty sure...but regardless it unlocks early on? *boggle*

Because my stand is that they aren't available early on.

No, but it makes the perception of new and current items far less exciting and meaningful.

That is a BS analogy as you've said, and really doesn't parallel the situation at all. It would be more something like this:

You have an old walkman. Your told your grandma got you the best mp3 player out there and it's on it's way. You look up what you were told you were getting, check the stats and obsess over it for a few days, excited that it's coming. So excited that you don't even bother listening to your walkman and start getting rid of your tapes since you won't be needing them. The package gets there, you open it up and...it's a CD player. You're obviously underwhelmed and have to play gracious to your grandma even though you are totally disappointing.

Your argument is like your parents telling you that you just don't understand how expensive things are and that you shouldn't worry because when you get a job in 5 years you can pay for the Mp3 player yourself.

Now exchange listening to music on a device with playing a video game for fun then, yeah, you may quit because you aren't having fun and there are plenty of other ways to spend that time and get more fun out of it.

 

It's Goblin Bazaar that unlocks at at 15; Randimar's unlocks at level 3 or 4. But the prices are so insane at that level (I saw 30,000 once) that most players won't even bother looking at what cards are on each item. There's also the difference between seeing a high level item you can't afford or use, and being given a high level item you can't use.

Want another silly analogy?

Imagine you're a little girl, and one day your mom invites you into her bathroom, and she shows you all her makeup, and explains what the different types are and how to put them on. And then she pulls out a large bag of brand new cosmetics, in all your favoritest colors and says they're all for you ... but you have to wait five years before you can use them. Then she goes into your bathroom and puts them on display on your sink so you have to look at them Every. Single. Day.

 

Yeah I believe you are confusing the rarities shop with the Goblin bazaar. The Rarities shop opens almost immediately and has not only high level items but high value items. It is unlocked before the MP tutorial and you can see what very high end gear looks like right off the bat. Better stuff than you receive from the starter pack, and it is all available for gold so you know that by the time you can use this amazing gear, you can afford some of it. Somehow though, actually having a piece of high level gear in your inventory makes the game unbearable?

There is a reason all the analogies are ridiculous, because that is how this situation seems. High level items exist, obviously. You can even see them, but having one, even a relatively crummy one sitting in your inventory just ruins the game because I want to use it now! Do we seriously require that instant gratification to function? Even just hiding the item would make it okay, knowing it is there but pretending it isn't? Why not just use your imagination, if you are on a magical rpg journey you can substitute whatever reality makes the game more fun for you.

If that is a better analogy then okay, the person isn't an unreasonable crazy guy, they are just a spoiled child.

How about when you unlock the MP tutorial you get a popup that says "By doing this tutorial you will get some higher level items that you cannot use until later. Will this ruin the game for you? (Yes/No)"

Edit: Something just occurred to me. When you first start the tutorial you are playing with Melvin's party of high level characters. You have a bunch of great gear you need to use to beat the missions. Suddenly he takes them back and you are left with a naked level one character.
If having a handful of high level item you can't use ruins the game, wouldnt having a full party of the best gear and suddenly losing access to it all be a hundred times worse? Why not just quit then?

 

To you. Can you not understand that other people see it differently and are impacted by it? If you can't by now, no amount of discussion is going to help with that it seems.

Fine, let's go ahead and insult everyone who says they enjoyed SP more before the MP intrusion and say that's true. I'll give you that. Welcome to business that provide services to customers. So they are all spoiled children that could be loyal, possibly paying, customers who would spread the word about the great game they are playing to others.

Should we then just ignore all of the people who have this point of view and have them quit early or do something that won't impact the rest of the users, but will add new, possibility valuable, customers to the game?

 

I understand and completely disagree with their assessment. It is my belief that if these people approach the situation with a different perspective, perhaps they could still enjoy the game after getting a pack of free loot. That is why my solution revolved around presenting it differently and providing information that would allow new players to perceive the situation with a more informed view.

I am not running a business. I have no say in what BlueManchu does to address this "problem" if they do at all. Personally I believe more people would greatly enjoy the free gear than are put off by it and they will likely not change anything, but I digress. My stance is that the vocal minority that hates seeing high level gear in their inventory so much that they want to quit the game over it are being overly dramatic, are overreacting, and again, were operating from a position of ignorance and their distaste for the game could have been avoided had they been better informed.

And yes, I am aware I am being a huge jerk about the whole thing. Welcome to the Internet

 

Since you two are still going at it, and making little headway... maybe try turning the argument to the other side.

Why are the characters you receive in the MP starter packs only level 1 when you go to use them in Single Player?

Because having them magically transform back to level 1 is really the same reasoning behind people wanting to NOT have their MP freebie items show up in SP the way I see it. Just in this case Blue Manchu did decide it would disrupt the campaign too much, where with items they decided it did not.

 

Having level 18 characters in SP would have an actual gameplay effect on the game as it would allow you to wear token and have HP above what you would normally have at that point in the campaign. The equivalent would be having the characters show up in SP as level 18 but you could not actually add them to your party until you level one of your own characters to 18. They appear to be more powerful, and would be a benefit if you could use them now, but by the time you can actually use them you don't need to anymore.

This would not bother me at all, assuming I knew why I was unable to put them into my party. Like the game should tell you when you open the pack, you will see these characters in your keep but you cannot use them in SP... blah blah. If it did not give this message until after you tried to add them, or not at all, I could see how that could be confusing and frustrating. Like getting a level 18 axe that you cannot equip because of some yellow token thingies you do not understand.

 

You can disagree with their assessment all you want, but they are not assessing it. This is the way they feel, and that's not something you can argue with.

But you are asserting your will on business decisions...

Doesn't mean you don't have an influence on it, otherwise, get out of the beta.

At least you've achieved your goal there.

 

A feeling they experienced as a result of an observation. Its not like they were sitting in their room alone with the lights off staring at a wall and suddenly decided that Card Hunter sucks. They made an observation that affected them negatively, that observation is colored by many things.

I am not asserting my will, I am offering suggestions. Both to the devs to take into consideration, and to the players who were tragically impacted by this horrible mechanic so that they might cope with it better.

Besides, successful businesses know not to cater to the vocal minority, and spoiled children are notoriously bad customers anyway.

 

I will have to agree. The addition of the multiplayer items kind of ruined the feel of the game and the enjoyment of the progression.

 

It's a pretty sad but my will to play is destroyed by this <imbalanced MP items> occasion

 

Instead of giving players high level items, perhaps it would be better to have the default cards you get (while no item is equipped) level up along with your character. Make them good enough to allow gearless players to play a meaningful game*, but crappy enough that even a normal common of equivalent level would be better to equip.

*Hacking at each other's 20~30 health characters with 2 damage cards, for example, feels awkward.

 

By the time you get to the level you can use them, you'll have other items just as good!

 

In my case (it was in the beta) I had a slight annoyance was that there were these high-level items that I couldn't use at the top of my inventory. But as time went on and I progressed in single-player, I kind of forgot about them. A L10 item I could use was way more interesting than a L18 item that I could not use for a long time. Now I don't even know which items I got in the starter pack.

Just sell them if they annoy you and you don't want to do multiplayer. You can still do MP just as well with the items you will collect yourself by the time you are finished the SP campaign.

 

The most sensible solution if they bother someone.

 

I sold mine off sight un-seen (only wandered into the MP area to get rid of the nagging message without realizing I had no choice in the starter pack) but a "destroy" option would be best since those item still show up as purchasable in the store you sold them to.

 

Oh hey, this thread was started in August. We can start a newer one with people who will probably respond