So you start out with Weak Chop, doing 2 damage. That is, if you manage to get adjacent to your target. And your target-to-be does not kill you first. Eventually you are doing 5 (or even 6!) damage to two targets! Chop chop! Of course this can only happen if you can line up to two adjacent targets. Now.. we don't have a spell that requires line of sight, has limited range and _randomly_ repositions the target on the map. We don't have an upgrade of that spell which increases the range, or makes it not require line of sight, or which can (*gasp*) target TWO targets and reposition them _randomly_ on the map. We just have (tadaaa!) Whirlwind! Which targets ALL enemies, requires NO line of sight and has NO range limitation. Just WTF? That should have been a level 100 spell, and only after offering a fair selection of cards that can block it. As it is now (in multiplayer), having cards that can block it just makes it worse, as only some of you characters will block, losing the blocking card in the process, while the other characters are whisked away. Nimble strike, same story. We have a gazillion step 1 move cards, a few step 2, and then Nimble strike! Please consider how to balance encumberance rules with warrior step attacks and how far warriors are able to step in one attack, while still making polearm warriors viable (range 2 attacks). Currently it is just silly. A step 2 attack is nimble. A step 4 attack is a legendary Ninja Death Strike! Finally, are you sure you want to have warrior attacks that can 1 shot a full health elven mage? Like the two other examples above, how about a smother progression in damage, and a slightly lower cap on the highest damage attacks? You don't have to agree with the letter of the word of this post, but if you agree with the gist, feel free to /sign it.
I agree with most of what is said in the original post. I don't think Whirlwinds are necessarily overpowered but they sure are lame. Luck aspect is something that should be minimized in a game like this, and cards like Whirlwind are just pure luck with pretty much no skill involved. Changing it to something like Mass Maze would make so much more sense. And if the card itself isn't nerfed, it should at least be more rare. I mean we have items that are full of either WW or WWE. One per item would be enough imo. Nimble Strike is a silly card. It's so overpowered that I don't even bother wasting my time debating about it any more. It's kind of like discussing if the sun rising each morning is a good or a bad thing. High damage warrior attacks are indeed slightly weird. I think the design philosophy should have been that no card could one shot any character unless there is a buff or debuff involved, especially because there are so many attack buffs out there, and it's pretty rare to have a warrior hit you without them. But I guess the devs used big numbers to get that "zomg" effect. This is a common, but flawed, argument when talking about card balance. The fact that there is a counter does not mean step attacks like Nimble Strike are not overpowered. Think about it. If there was a card that did 100 damage, and a card whose only function is to cancel that same 100 damage, does that mean the first card is not op because there is a counter for it?
im not saying nimble isnt op, im just poiting out that sometimes ppl need think outside the box. roots is a amazing card on the currrent meta.. and there will always be Op cards, no matter what, just try adapt
I wouldn't call that thinking outside the box. It's pretty clear that when you need to stop a warrior from jumping around, you use encumber, halt, etc. Entangling Roots is not a new invention, but you don't see much of it because it's s only one card that can be used by only one class. It's also very situational and I would never call it "amazing". Cards like Short Perplexing Ray are much better counters imo because they are highly useful against any team out there. Also I don't agree that there will always be op cards. Sure, balancing cards is sometimes difficult, but it's not like it's an impossible task, and we should all just learn to live with it. There are many games out there that have a really good balance. Of course they have been around longer than Card Hunter, and have had more time to fix things.
This! (..is actually what I would have written, if I had been as eloquent as you, and not raging quite as much. Thank you!) Regarding entangling roots. You must first win initiative, then gain the ability to see through walls or around corners in 4 step range. Granted it's a good tip, and may occasionally save you, but it is a soft counter at best. I really love this game, particularly the artstyle which makes me crazy nostalgic, but I kinda wish they would redo much of the cards and concepts. I kept my rant to 3 easily remedied things that are heavily influencing multiplayer right now in the hopes that it would get some community support and maybe be heard. But before the sequal / expansion, we should really discuss why warriors are shoehorned into specific builds because of very limited class traits, why area spells do damage through walls (so far only campaign, because no range 2 AoE spells available for players), and many many other things.
This isn't to say nimble strike isn't too strong for it's quality right now but you are wrong on this one point. It is true that if the enemy is hidden you can not prevent his nimble strike going off but after that one time it did, your roots are disabling him completely from moving at all, this includes step attacks so he can't actually attack at all with any step attacks so even if don't have LOS or initiative, you will disable your opponent after one nimble strike which is preety good. Again, this isn't defending nimble strike, but a card that most people have almost no experience in running and is actually a very good card (preventing a character from moving is very good even without this nimble strike-counter bonanza everyone's in for the past month).
Entangling Roots can be useful in that it disables Step Attacks completely, which is a function of the Halt keyword that a lot of people aren't aware of. However it doesn't do much to stop the more common combo of Nimble Strike followed by a high value Hack/Bludgeon. The reason Step Attacks are so potent is they force a Fork on your opponent. He can either move your Warrior away, or he can Encumber/Halt him. Neither one of these is a perfect solution. If he's moved the Warrior can often just use his base movement card to get back in range, and if he's encumbered then he's still in melee and can deliver whatever follow up he might be holding. Entangling Roots does nothing to prevent this dilemma unless all he's holding are Step Attacks. Which is possible! Considering their prevalence in the current multiplayer environment, but it is indeed a soft counter at best.
Because spells are magic which is not limited by the physical world, it's by definition supernatural. If you can conjure fire out of nothing, why should it matter if solid matter happens to be in the area? A fireball is not an incendiary grenade which needs to be physically lobbed to a location where it explodes and the explosion spreads from that particular point until it encounters an obstacle or exhausts itself. A fireball is a wizard-chosen area that is evenly engulfed in magical fire, no matter what's in it. Or that's what the (super)natural scientist in me says after observing spell behaviour in the universe of Cardhuntria .
i didnt meant to say that Entangling Roots where the magical answer for nimble strike, i just think, they are a nice counter, and many ppl dont know it, but im a " Johnny" at heart and like trying diferent stuff VP is a op item sure, but i belive the devs are working to improve the game and its balance, even if i repeat again, there will always be stronger canrds than other. so till then lets enjoy
You can force a fork with a simple move card, that's not why step attacks are so good, they're good because in addition to creating a fork they deal damage, alot if buffed which can be really detrimental if it's directed towards your weaker character like the mage, people don't like the surprise element that turns into a death after 2 blows - understandable. Talking about counters is fine but this isn't MTG where you have to remove creatures. except for the perplexing rays/wavering faith/etc. that everyone knows all other counters would be considered soft because only a handful of cards make your opponent lose cards, what roots offers is different because immobilizing your opponent gives you time to do whatever you want to it - freeze, wow, burn without objection. And yes, the combo of Step+Oblit/Mighty strike can happen but if you really run several roots you'll start using it aggresively to prevent the worst case scenario which is the only scenario people bring here, it is actually not rare to have you roots the warr before his stepping madness even begun. By this point, if you play alot you will know not only the players that have VP but the specific character they have it on (if that player has more then one warr) and very few people suspect that priest that just came closer has roots, they are more likely to think you have nimbus (having both is optimal for major opponent frustration) so best case scenario - the one where you roots before a single step has been made isn't that far fetched. Just for clarification - I would be one of those who will benefit alot from a nimble strike nerf because my warr has absolutely none so far but you guys should be honest, you just don't like the items poor little Entangling Roots is on which is why it's hardly seen
Agree with Bearson Onyn. I dont have a Vp, and the only nimble strikes i use is from a lochaber, and those arent even crucial to my build. or when im running my ninja priest with Mindshinker just for the fun of it .Sure its anoying seing a ninja dwarv coming your way, special if he was 2 vp. its op sure. Roots is a nice card, just for the lol's do a roots and a mind worm to a full step warrior and laugh and point while he discards prety much then all. and for extra bonus put some nice lava on his feet
I think the only issues that I really have with Nimble Strike are that first, it's kind of unattainable. I've been playing since launch, and quite literally the only thing I've gotten with Nimble Strikes on it is a Whiteglow Flail. And that's only two, and only for a Priest. Which is cool, but not as helpful. Secondly, that Nimble Strike is *that* much better than all of the other step cards. Vicious Thrust is groovy and all, but particularly for the rarity of items that it comes on, in the multiples that it comes with, in the rarity of the card, compared to other cards of its kind, especially considering that Nimble strike is a full Step 2 more - I think it should at least be looked at. While doing the Single-Character challenge, the first thing that killed my Elf Warrior frequently was that damn dog in Highway Robbery. When doing a single-character challenge with 10HP, the fact that the dog not only can dash you down but then *in addition* Nimble Strike you if you do Dash Away, cover that exact distance, *and* take 60% of your health was not okay. The rest of the early maps were fine, even the multiple-goblins-with-blocks-and-reflects one. In either case, from a purely design standpoint, Nimble Strike is really badly designed. Whether this was purposeful or not? Eh, who's to say? But it doesn't keep in-line with other cards of the same power level, same rarity, same concept, anything. Whirlwind, I'm okay with. The Whirlwinds (Even WWE) aren't overpowered, but are odd choices. They'll only win you as many as they lose you, but the fact that they can force bad plays is where they shine. I actually had a deck for a time based around Nimbusing a Priest, who sat on the only VP on the map, and the two Wizards had a crapton of WWE and Winds of War to keep him sitting on said VP. I gave up on that 'cause it was just boring and awful. I'm okay with there being high damage attacks so long as said mage can mitigate the damage somehow. With the existence of Nimble Strike, Mages can basically do dick nothing without multiple spells every turn to keep themselves from taking said damage. I'd say fix Nimble Strike (I'd suggest -1 damage and -1 Step, ideally, and then look at options for mitigating other damage. Granted, I'm running a 2-warrior setup based upon Mighties / Oblits and a couple AoAs to one-shot unsuspecting denizens, but eh. I can't count the times when I run into a parry and weep loudly in my closet, alone.
It... actually kinda is. The reason Control Wizards is struggling on the current map set is that Warriors can easily position themselves within Nimble Strike range without being in LoS. I speak from first hand experience here. This is not the 'worst case scenario,' it is in fact the most likely thing to have happen when fighting well geared Warrior teams. Entangling Roots has this same problem, but built into its design. Only having range four it is unlike that you will be able to root before the Warrior Nimbles unless he makes a mechanical or positional error and once he's Nimble Struck he's standing on your face and all rooting does it give him a second turn to pound it in before you have a chance to move away.
Also considering that if the warrior is at max range (5), he can Nimble and you can't Entangle, it's not particularly a savvy solution. Taking Obliterating Bludgeon into account, however. You have Parry, you have Desperate Block, you have Lifesaving Block, you have Toughness. You have literally 10-15 options that are also really, really useful in other situations as well that can deal with high-damage attacks like that pretty well. I've swtiched back to Blocking Mace for at least one of my weapons just for the fact that I'm usually facing 10-15 average damage from a warrior, if not more from any given attack.
Nim the warrior can only have step atacks on their hand, so after a root, none will work. but yes this maps are a pain in the ass for mages, after the halloween maps my ranking too a plumbing..now im io-io up and down up and down my main deck with 1 war and 2 mages and my actual deck with 3 mages been struggling with mix results. seems i can compet againt higher rankings like 1500 but lose to 1200 ish lol, oh well, just mean we need adapt, part of the fun is deck building
you must be really careful position your guys. use those "arena spikes" to your advantage but ye this close maps favour well geared warriors
Regardless of the many counters kablizzy pointed out to the follow-up you mention, again - no one is disputing the incredible power of nimble strike, you were talking about step attacks in general to which roots can be a general solution. I would support a range buff on roots to promote more people using it (although at a range of 6 for example I can see some people yelling OP) regardless of whatever nerf nimble strike will get, if any.
Card Hunter's system allows for very powerful cards to appear on certain items. That is fine and shouldn't be much of a problem, as long as an item as a whole is properly balanced. Having a few nimble strikes appearing on some weapons makes this game interesting. Even Lochaber with 3 nimbles and a vicious thrust is not favored by everybody, because of the other 2 crappy cards on it. Having 6 nimble strikes on a single item, though.. that is just plain ridiculous.
