Currently, pushes via team move cards etc work on encumbered allies, which is good because encumber is a strong mechanic and needs some counters, but it also currently works against Halt. I think this should be looked at for a potential change. There are few cards with the Halt mechanic, and unlike encumber, Halt only lasts for the current turn. I think cards like Entangling Vines (using Halt) should prevent pushes on their target. Entangling Vines is only a current turn lockdown at 4 range, at least let it do its job. If not, I think the range/damage needs to be buffed.
While that make sense that Halt should be stronger, I'd still feels that making the target unable to be pushed around is a bit too strong. Let's take a look at the strongest disable in the game: Stun. There;s plenty of them in SP but there is only 1 item and 1 card that has this property. It is very strong and effectively shutdown a target. Removing a stun requires a purge or 3 different attachments card to push it away (some of them can be from your opponent. Anyway, if Halt is used from range 4 with a warrior and we never walk close to him, it is effectively a Stun (if he cannot be pushed around like you said). Given how common Entangling Roots is, that would be too strong of an effect. I would want Roots to have some buff too, but that is too much.
That is a fair assessment. I think the problem is that 4 range is too short for Entangling Roots. 6 range might bring it in line.
Entangling Roots already acts as an infinite-power encumber, prevents playing all step attacks even if the character is adjacent to their target, and can be used by a class not normally associated with control cards. Not to mention how useful it is in the campaign where enemies with Push are rare. It really doesn't need a buff.
Well, that is all true, but in PVP, enemies with push are not rare...they are pretty common. Team moves are used a lot, all of which PUSH. Moving your priest within 4 squares of the enemy (usually someone you do not want to get close to) to use this puts your priest in range if any but the weakest push 1 and 2 move cards, and the push 2 will allow someone to still hit you with a spear attack. The push 3, 4, or 8 completely negating this card. I'm not asking for this to become ungodly, but I do honestly think it needs some more range.
Well, here's the thing: You've identified what is, arguably, the strongest mechanic in the meta-game at the moment: the team pushes. And you've come up with a card that looks like it should be a counter, but really isn't. Rather, it is countered by team pushes. So you suggest buffing that card. The problem is that buffing halt (or rather, Entangling Roots) will actually make the team pushes stronger. Roots will start to dominate games that do not have the pushes and will force players to bring even more pushes to stay mobile. The bottom line will be the exact opposite of what you set out to do, which is try to balance out the team pushes in the first place -- and it will shift the delicate race balance firmly in favor of humans.
I agree with those points. Entangling roots can also be used offensively, and combined with movement to kill the entangled. Team movement, and movement in general, is strong in this game. So is encumber/halt. I agree that the balance should be in favor of mobility, because mechanics that prevent people from playing (stuns/immobilizes) are not very fun, and easy to abuse. So, perhaps it is best left as is.
Change like that is double-edged sword. Do you want them to also not affect slides? My entire deck revolves around Entangle-Wind of War into position-Kill (with either priest or warrior) non-escapeable combos. If you prevent pushes and slides i cannot use Winds of War to move halted target where i want it - essentially making it "Immovable". Though i guess then i could use it on my own characters to prevent them being slided away from VP that way.
I will say something which (I have no doubt) will be quite unpopular, but I think the main problem here is that team moves shouldn't grant push, but rather count as regular movement. If you leave team moves aside, I think there's a very good variety and, by extension, interesting choices to be made when it comes to mobility cards: you get cards with normal movement, cards with cantrip, cards with free move, cards which let you draw. Team moves? You get to move 2+ characters and also get push instead of regular movement. Those are really powerful cards, and they dominate most other mobility cards to an unreasonable degree, removing most of that interesting decision making. Saving for cantrip moves, there's very little reason to not pick team move cards over any other move cards. In fact players try and stack as many team moves as they possibly can (and, in the current state of things, they absolutely should). There's very little incentive in, say, picking an item with scamper, over one with team moves. Team moves are so good they remove interesting choices from the game. Also, another effect team moves have on the game which I don't like: they kind of make positioning less important. How many times have you used team moves to surround a priority target right at the start of the game, hopefully taking him out in turn 1-2 (this often happens to enemy wizards/priests by using team sprint). In most instances, your opponent can't really respond to tactics like these, unless he got a lucky round-1 draw himself. I believe this is very detrimental to the game, as it leaves your opponent little or no room for responding appropriately, and ultimately augments the feeling that "the game is highly affected by luck". While, if team moves didn't have push, a player could at the very least try to "play it safe" positioning his characters in a way to minimize the risk of losing an important piece of his party too early in the game. As an extension, I will also say encumber (especially cold spells) are too powerful, as it's extremely easy to encumber-lock an enemy character. Cold spells get all of the following: you can have a lot of them in your deck (as you also get the ones on staves, plus cone of cold on arcane implements), all of them have range 6+, most of them last 2 rounds (only one exception), most of them inflict 2+ points of encumber (only one exception), encumber from different spells does stack. My humble opinion is: team moves should be deprived of push, while cold spells should be made a tad less effective. I otherwise see no issues with the current implementation of entangling roots. Even if you can have a decent number of it in a deck, it's a medium range spell (so your priest, unlike a wizard, needs to get close to the enemy to cast it) and lasts one round only.
Bandreus, I think that is the best solution so far. I second that team moves should be a move effect instead of a push on allies. It is very counter intuitive, and an additional plus on an already powerful set of cards. If Entangled/Halted characters couldn't be pushed by team moves, that would go a long way to solving many problems with team moves AND Entangling Vines in one swoop. As far as Encumber through cold spells go, when I first started playing this game, I thought them to be a little over the top, but as I rose in rank I countered them with the very same team move "push" cards. The cold staves already have the advantage of not being countered by Resistant Hide, and I'd like to see more variety in the staves used. One possible easy fix to frost might be to only have the most powerful frost effect take effect (no stacking). That way, in most instances, most races will at least be able to move 1.
Pushes still have to obey the rules for difficult terrain, so I'd think the natural counter to team pushes would be to create more difficult terrain placing cards. Wall Of Illusion is a good start, but it's IMO the only viable one because all of the Acid cards are difficult to use to place terrain where you want it. I'd love to see something like Rockfall for Wizards, but it would be overpowered if left as is, so maybe a lesser version (3x3 square for 3 damage?).
