Draw Decks Broken

The thesis here is that nerfing things is "not fun". That is an incomplete position. Nerfing particularly strong cards/combinations makes everything else more viable. A larger variety of decks and play styles leads to a more robust and fun game in the long term. Indeed it might seem "fun" having winds of war battles right now. A lot of times it definitely is. What isn't fun is when only one side has these tools and without them is seemingly always in a losing position. You have to balance those two things and right now I'd say the balance is quite far off. When two guys have plenty of WoW/WWE the game indeed seems very action packed and awesome. So kudos to them for creating that situation. However you have to look at all the guys that are not playing these cards and realize what their experience is like.

I'd be curious to see what the stats say about rank versus either draw combos or WoW/WWE enemy decks being highly rated. It was about 2 months since that was posted and he said that the meta game might change. So far at 1400+, at least in my anecdotal experience, this represents a huge % of all decks. If they have the tools to look at that then they should. Maybe I am wrong, although I doubt it.

-

And anyway they've clearly said that infinite draw decks are both game breaking *and* not fun to play/play against. So based on that they should be at least taking this out. To me that is 100% a no brainer. Every time at high rank even when I'd face that guy who set up the rambo warrior round 2/3... well even that crap isn't fun. But what I've done is definitely not fun, with the majority of opponents say as much in chat. For comparison that rarely happens with any other build, even WWE on that new double moat map.

 

I honestly think the main problem is altruism and not the charms. I know this is considered heresy
because card drawing altruism is a primordial idea (one of the 3 types of divine priests) but the nerf isnt
enough it seems, I think this will only get worse as people will eventually have more inspiring presence which
works amazingly well with altruism. 3 priests will have a field day with that...

 

erm, I'm utterly baffled here. Are you saying we should give both sides the same cards ? Have them draw the same cards in the same turn and pit them against each other ? Or that the player who grinded for items should always be on the losing side vs the lazy player who couldn't be bothered to put some thought into making/fine-tuning a deck ? Or do you want a game where you have all the cards you want in your deck to beat any deck ? That happens to be some other game I know, not this one.

WWE is a double edged sword, you could get thrown far OR thrown right where you want to be. WoW is a two move control card, blockable and deadly when used correctly, cf, Temple Tussle guide. In pvp, having no moves = sitting duck. Are they OP ? Not really. Annoying ? Yes. Does your build counter it ? If not, do you think you deserve to win against someone who put in effort building and shaping a deck designed to counter yours ?

At the moment, draw decks don't have much counters ... Warcry/ToD is 1 combo, so a counter mill based upon Warcry/ToD/Purge would work. The other is Elvish Insight/Devastating Blow but DB isn't easy to mesh with. I'm not overly worried, numbers will always show the truth. Plus its only been 3 wks since release.

 

I stopped reading here and TBH I don't really care what you have to say. You are just being a ridiculous lawyer now and I don't care to waste my time. Good day.

 

I think he's saying it's a problem, because of how one sided it is. Not that the solution is to make both sides draw a billion cards.

 

You know what is overpowered when combined with draw decks? FIRESTORM.
I just played someone with a dwarf firestorm wizard and two dwarf card draw priests. Through Resistant Hide, card draw (which makes the Resistant Hide quite likely to come up), and Unholy Wellspring, two of my characters were killed the first round, and my third character (elf warrior) was reduced to ten health despite having Shimmering Aura. The next two rounds the wizard was able to keep my warrior indefinitely despite being frozen by spamming WW/WWE and using card draw from their surviving priest. Does anyone else find a problem with a build that can decimate a team first round with no LOS unless they *happen* to draw one of a handful of cards like Sprint, Nimbus, or WWE in the first round?

 

I presume the Priests don't survive the Firestorm barrage?

 

Which is exactly why I'm utterly baffled. Its a CCG, you choose your build and find the items to make it. How does removing, say, WoW help to make it less one-sided ? I'd just go get Improved Telekinesis and if that's also removed, then I'd get Telekinesis, Force Bolt etc. Its like when Talented Healer got reworked, people subbed Altruism and switched from Heals to inspirations/demonic feedback etc. Players go to make the builds so it works and win. That's the whole point of PVP or am I completely mistaken ?

What I'm pretty sure tho is that name-calling doesn't help. Telling devs that this/that card counters your build/playstyle and should be removed doesn't help either.

Same question, what's your build ? Do you have Reliable Mails, Resistant Hides, Holy Armor, Boosted Heals, Immovable, blocks, enough HP ? The Firestorm spam build is fragile. In the hands of a expert tho, its deadly.

 

Priests have no trouble at all surviving the Firestorm barrage, or even the recurring 5 damage from multiple Demonic Feedbacks, since they have Impenetrable Nimbus protecting them from all damage.

 

Anti-mage things I use:
On fighter: 1 Reliable Mail, 1 Shimmering Aura, 1 Immovable, 3 Hard To Pin Down
On mage: Resistant Hide
On priest: 2 Nimbus
My priest and mage are humans, my warrior is an elf but has fairly decent anti-mage gear.

The problem is that the firestorm team got going the very first round, so I had reletively little chance to draw any of this. In a tiny bit of luck, I actually did get the Shimmering Aura in my warrior's first hand, but that just meant that two instead of three of my characters were unavoidably dead in the first round. I feel that resistant hide favors card draw immensely when combined with firestorm because the card-drawers are very likely to draw it quickly while their opponents are not.

 

This is still the best write-up of the card-drawing issue/strategy that I have seen. And the point made is, not surprisingly, the same as others have come to: the draw-deck hinges primarily on the 2nd circle charm, which is unbalanced -- and used consistently in all draw decks I have seen.

I humbly offer a few suggestions for fixes here.