[Suggestion] Pengw1n ponders: Four Leaf Clovers - making luck an actual mechanic.

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by Pengw1n, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    On and off throughout the beta there have been a few people complaining about the game relying too much on random numbers (RNG is the term thrown around, no matter it's actual origin as Random Number Generation). While I don't agree with this , and see the deck/party building mechanic as a tool to battle this, it made me think about how "Luck" could actually be introduced (or even retconned) into Card Hunter.

    The Racial Aspect

    Four Leaf Clovers would be a resource tied to racial selection. All current races are somewhat balanced and would work out getting 1 each, any future race could be balanced around other numbers - for instance, 2 would make sense for Halflings (that are usually lucky in lore) and allow for more diversity (not just hp, race move and racial skill).

    The Progression Aspect

    Potentially every 10 levels you could aquire an additional Four Leaf Clover (FLC), but it would probably be enough with the initial tokens realistically. It all depends on how much you want to spin a new mechanic as part of the progression.

    The Spending Aspect

    FLCs would appear att the bottom of the specific figurine on your card hand track, coloured green - or black if expended for this map. Any FLC spent would regenerate for the next map (or possibly for the next adventure, depending on balancing). FLC's can be spent on:
    • Discarding a card to draw a new one.
    • Allowing you to Shuffle
    • A reroll of your next failed roll (after activation, lasts until occuring)
    The Passive Card Aspect

    Existing, and future cards could be fit with a FLC-based keyword that only triggers when you have x Four Leaf Clovers unexpended (depending on if it's static or progression based - i e more obtainable than base amount). Say a block could have a passive +1 roll if you have a green FLC, while another card could have a -1 roll if you have only black FLC's (expended tokens). This would make it a strategic choice to spend, and could even allow for actual deck building based around a keywork like luck mechanic that could.

    Would this be balanced (esp for mp)? Would this be fun? Would this be a worth anything to someone thinking the game is too luck based, or just a waste iof time (i e lost cause)? Would this be possible to jury rig (I know BM are just DYING for more feature requests, heh) on top of the current code?

    Whaddya think? Madness, brilliance or just a waste of time creating this post?
     
  2. Mirkel

    Mirkel Goblin Champion

    Sounds good to me. Tabletop RPGs already use these mechanics (fate points in Dark Heresy, fortune points in Warhammer FRPG 3rd Ed etc) so it would even work with the background story, though I'm sure Melvin would sneer at any GM giving their players such an easy way out of certain doom(s). Still, I doubt it would appease the howling unwashed masses who cry it's all too luck-based and they draw nothing but walks and blocks and armor and never win any fights - I think most of those people just don't realize both building your deck so you have better chances to draw what you need and then utilizing whatever you happen to get in the actual fights are both an integral part of the game.
     
  3. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    I can see the whine already "my luck is so rng it never works.... is rigged..." that said maybe for 20+ but not shifted into the current game.
     
  4. Lindbergh

    Lindbergh Kobold

    I like the theory behind it but unintended consequences need to be thought out.

    Example 1. Is the discard a card and draw a card ability open for abuse? Would it grease the wheels for a cleric draw deck to function too well? Would a wizard loaded up on attacks cards being able to drop their auto drawn move card for a likely extra attack create some scary 1 round damage scenarios.

    Example 2. Would terrain effects become a lot harder to use in multiplayer if everyone has a get out of jail shuffle that is not card based? Playing cat and mouse between making opponents burn their move cards before dropping some lava under them is tricky enough now without adding in an extra layer.

    Once again not saying the ideas are bad, and restrictions can be built in, like can't discard your guaranteed movement card to address issues. Just that some unintended consequences need to be thought through.
     
  5. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    @Merkel: Yeah, my inspiration came from similar mechanics in table top rpgs, correct.

    Valid points Lindbergh, but kept limited the FLC's shouldn't be able to cause too much of these issues. Being allowed 1-2 of these actions per character per map (or even adventure if needed) shouldn't allow for too much of an issue - buy maybe suggest it'd be a bad idea to keep it as part of the general level progression. The move option could also be removed entirely I judged imbalanced, I just needed some actions as examples to show what the general idea could be. The main thing is the balanced payoff between keeping and spending, in my mind at least.
     
  6. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    Oh, I thought the idea was to use the FLC to shuffle your discard into your deck. Would have been clearer if it said Shuffle.
     
    Pengw1n likes this.
  7. rephikul

    rephikul Mushroom Warrior

    This sounds more like a suggestion for a basic move set rather then luck manipulation....
    I kindly point you toward my suggestion for default move customization, which should cover this and much more.

    On a side note, 3 extra movement actions? No, horrible!! Would totally gimp pure melee fighters (chop/slash) and terrain wizard while making glacial wizards even more powerful.
     
  8. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    I'm not looking for a movement customization, that's supposed to be a minor part of the mechanic. And yes, I even suggested taking out the move entirely if it'd be considered too powerful. I'd say it's the least "necessary" of the things to spend FLC on in my view. Don't really see the relation to your idea tbh?
     
  9. smeata

    smeata Mushroom Warrior

    Sounds like fun
     
  10. rephikul

    rephikul Mushroom Warrior

    You suggested something that do many things and is always there. Did that ring any bells?
     
  11. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    Yours is a inventory slot for re-using current cards (yes, I've read your thread), while my suggestion is a meta-mechanic not related to a specific slot - and not replacing or re-using anything currently in game? I don't see it - I'm not looking to change the default racial move here, at most I suggested being able to discard/draw a random card - for that extra "luck" oomph, and have it be related to a "currency". As I said, that bit is also a minor part of my suggestion as I see it.
     
  12. rephikul

    rephikul Mushroom Warrior

    Err my point still stand. Goals very close, approaches differ. I use a slot, you create a new slot type. I recycle existing items for their effects. You hard code your own effects, of which most arguably can already be emulated with current cards.
     
  13. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    We'll have to agree to disagree then. Pretty much :)

    You're adding a random layer to the game (random draw deck), I'm trying to at least give the illusion of removing it - by giving players a chance to feel they can affect their own luck. Maybe the goal or effect would be the same - but I don't like the basic idea of a controllable slot.
     

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