Balance Issues and design improvements

Permanent "Armor" cards/traits like Only Bones etc, need to be removable via some mechanic. I can see them not being hit by Memory Loss/Wavering Faith....But Dissolve Armor? but yeah, some mechanic needs to be in place. Perhaps make new cards on items that state:

"Attach to target. Target now has Vulnerability to Slashing(etc) for 3 turns. "
You have the design space already.



All AOE or Cone spells need to be cancelable. How the hell has the game made it this far without being able to cancel them? That is UN FUN guys, that means NON-fun. Am i missing something like how to cancel them? If so, retract this one, and apologies.

Tab needs to be able to cycle valid targets, unless you plan on being able to rotate the screen. Targeting in the 2 position on some maps and figures can be painful in the extreme.

Ctrl+L when your mouse is over a square needs to show you the line of sight you would have from that square as if one of your toons was standing there.

If moves arent going to be cancelable, you need to make a "confirm move use" pop up on a toggle for those of us that would use it.


The overall feel of the game is good, however it does seem like nearly every dungeon is decided by my opening hand, or failing that, if i can reach my armor cards within 3 turns.

Weekly for the Rares vault is perhaps too much. I would suggest 72 hours.

 

As an addition to the AOE/Cone cancel, It would be extremely useful to be able to see the effected squares of an AOE or Cone spell via mouse over. Since they can only be targeted in 4 directions, make it mouse position sensitive. I also didnt see anything on Burning Fingers to let me know that the Cone was different from say, Fire Spray.

 

Burning fingers specifically states range 3, which I felt was logical for representing a bigger cone. The cone area preview thing would be nice though. Just curious but would you mind elaborating more on the targeting issue/board rotation ? Doesn't hovering your mouse over a target cause things in the way to kinda fade away ?

 

I agree with your sentiment of this sounding like a bug - I'm pretty sure I've gotten oozes to discard their armor with perplexing ray, so it may just be specific armors that aren't working right.

To the OP, as for cancelling cards, you may want to post your thoughts in this discussion here.

 

Yep, it does down in the corner. However, unless you are real familiar with this kind of game Ala Shining Force era onwards, just stating range 3 doesnt say much. It would be better to express cones As 3x5 or 1x3x5 or however big you want your cone to be. The real issue with them is if you want to see what kind of reach you have if you change facing, since the overlays only appear in the direction you are currently facing.


Just found something else. When using Telekinesis 2, all mobs youre moving with it should ignore standard ZOC movement rules...This of course would split movement definitions into "standard" moves, and "special" move effects and special moves should be differentiated via card text. This would open design space into effects that selectively restrict normal moves or special moves...Epic or Legendary effects could restrict both. Ergo, Entangling Roots becomes a restrict standard moves effect because umm..you should be able to teleport out of roots.

"Gravity Well - Epic effect; Range 6, Magic, attach to target. All adjacent figures including this one, are prevented from using both normal and special movement effects, Duration 2." Thats pretty strong, but you could make it reduce movement by -2 or -3. Just wanted to state an example of what im thinking.


The occlusion im talking about occurs in the 2 position, which would be NE on a compass. Smaller mobs tend to be eclipsed by the larger figures. I would use Tab targeting a lot, if it were implemented.

 

This distinction already exists. The keyword "Free Move" means that a movement ignores "stop" effects, and the keyword "Teleport" means that it ignores LOS too. This means that the lack of these keywords on cards like Telekinesis is an intended design decision (perhaps not one you agree with, but nonetheless, intended).

If they wanted it to behave the way you describe, it would read something like "Slide 2, Free Move", much like Scuttle, Team!

 

I guess the problem here is clutter. That kind of works for smaller cones but larger ones like cone of cold have a range of 6. Perhaps a simple "Cone X" might do ?

 

Nothing is an intended design decision in CB Neo...I know this from my own work. Many, many things are instituted just to make them playable, and then theres a series of passes where you get everything to work correctly. It also makes little sense that Telekinesis does not move figures over impassible but not LOS obstructing terrain...i seriously doubt thats an intended design decision because it makes no sense, and the BM guys are smarter then that. Lifting something up and over water or a pit is exactly what you want to use TK for, well at least a lot of the time. IE, the lvl 10 demon module where there are pools of water.


The only issue with expressing it as Cone 1 etc, is when you get to spells that have a different cone layout. Id guess that the basic cone is Cone 2, however Cone 2 can either be 3 squares and then 5, or 1 Square and then 3. Both have a maximum range of 2, but very different in coverage. You can also get into reverse cones, where the effect drops off over distance, 5x3x1. This kind of cone is used for effects that lose power over distance.


Also, I just hit Morvin. Against the Cockroaches is recommended lvl 12, I believe the last room has a combination of factors that makes it come down to luck, and not proper planning. Too many roaches, Too many types of armor on Morvin combined with armor removing melee strikes, resistant hide on the roaches gimps your mage unless you go strictly Arcane, the door is 15 hps with decent armor, basically making it in the 30-45 hp range depending on your luck. If you concentrate your two toons getting the door down, one is invaribly sacced to the roaches, and thats if Morvin doesnt kill your lone toon before you are through it.

Oh and i forgot to add that the cockroaches can pass through the shut door freely, making it even more annoying. So unless you start with Firestorm...blah.

Needs a balance pass for lvl 12.

 

You already had several maps to see exactly what cards the cockroaches had, what their HP was, how they move... you already had one map to see what sort of things Morvin himself was throwing around... did you not alter your decks at all before getting to the final map? The roaches fall ridiculously fast to Chops, even with their armor - if anything they could use one or even two more HP. If their armor just really bugs you, it's simple to remove with a plethora of warrior, priest, and wizard cards. Morvin's armor is not particularly great and can be removed just as easily, and his most dangerous attacks can be completely negated, at least by wizards. The door's armor doesn't affect fire and it usually can't move - try lava. The "door" is a creature, allied creatures do not block movement, thus cockroaches should be able to move through it and you should not due to zone of control. Try teleport cards to ignore the door. If you get "stuck" in the room with Morvin, hide behind pillars. There are plenty of them and Morv doesn't have the best movement. That's just a very brief assessment off the top of my head; I'm stopping here just to keep it relatively short.

Where's the need of a rebalance, again?

Cone cards show you the shape of their affect when you mouse over them. Just rotate that in your mind. If you're really bad at that sort of spatial manipulation, use your fingers to trace out the shape. Yes, proper directional mouse-over would be nice, but in the interim this works just fine.

 

My fighter had 8 chops, with trained slicing. Ive replayed the map several times, with different configurations. The first two maps usually go down without any trouble at lvl 12-13. The third stumps your party.

Dont be dumb, the module will be an exercise in frustration for anyone thats not seriously into min-maxing and requires you to re-run all the old adventures as often as you can. You dont even GET the firestorm orb unless you buy the treasure hunts. There is no plethora of armor removal cards at lvl 12 and certainly none for Warriors by that level, Priests get Wavering faith by this level, and its a bad card on bad items because it gives you negative card advantage.. If your lucky, you have 3-4 memory loss, a handful of acid sprays/acid beams(which dont remove armor right away) and maybe some dissolves/boils. Demon Hide and Arrogant Armor are QUITE good for the level.."not particularly great"... I can only assume you are trolling. All that assumes that its your wizard that is in there, and not your cleric/fighter.

If you bring fire as a wizard, you need to bring Hot Spot...by lvl 12 you MAY have 1, possibly 2 if you are extremely lucky. However youd best not bring any other fire unless your going to gamble on a 1st or 2nd turn Firestorm, because resistant hide takes zero damage from it otherwise. If your wizard is dedicated to Card discard, then your not doing much else, and some of the mem loss items come with blacks as well. Morvin may not have the best movement, but his ranged poisons, of which he has many, are devastating on your wizard...Even with reflexive teleport, its still brutal as poison isnt stopped by normal defenses, even shimmering aura.

By lvl 12, you wont have teleport cards to ignore the door. I havent seen a single player controlled teleport self or other item, even in the shops. The best you will have is dimensional traveler, or if youre lucky you can trigger a reflexive teleport next to the door. Btw, i have ONE reflexive teleport card, by 13. You can definetly try to hide behind the pillars, however if one or two roaches cross into the room, you get boxed.

The door is a creature yes, it needs to be to have Hps and the armor card, but it makes zero sense that its not flagged as being impassible for normal movement.


The devs have already acknowledged that Cone cards need fixing and are on the list...im unsure why you brought it up? Im pointing out that its annoying for people new to the genre; ive already learned them...and that has nothing to do with not being able to cancel them.

 

Also, Id like to add that having status effects still inflict there debuff even IF the attack itself deals no damage, is counter-intuitive. If the zombie cant deal damage, how exactly is it stunning anyone?

 

Hi guys,

Spirited discussion of game balancing is great, but using language like:

• "How the hell has the game made it this far..."
• "Don't be dumb..."
• "I can only assume you are trolling."
• "Where's the need of a rebalance, again?"

Comes off as incredibly snarky and/or mean-spirited even though I know you guys don't really mean it. Chill out and be respectful. If you need to again, please refer to our forum rules.

I know you're excited about the game and really want to see it improve (hence the *amazingly* detailed and to-the-point posts), so that puts everyone on the same page.

 

Im chill enough. Always very calm when I bother to post.


Btw, the most bothersome part about Resistant Hide....is the Keep. And that its drawn nearly every turn since they have a very small pool of cards, so even removing it is really temporary. 3+ and 2, with Keep and all those resistances is too much. Is this module supposed to be a gear check?

 

Burning Bangle is a level 5 common arcane item that has two Hot Spot cards on it. My party is currently at level 14 and I already have three of them, all found before the cockroach level. So getting Hot Spots may require some luck but not that much.

I didn't have too much trouble winning that level. Morvin may do some damage to a single character but it was easy to just hide behind one of the pillars and keep out of Morvin's line of sight while the other two characters killed cockroaches and smashed the door. I didn't really need any anti-armor cards or discards.

 

I found one Hot Spot by lvl 12, and two spike pits.