Let's talk about: Game Difficulty!

All dwarf party. Also I had no more moves and he trapped me because I was an idiot

 

It was neither the Goblin Hulk nor the Golem, both of those have Walk so they're slow, and they also constantly have Clumsy or other drawbacks to keep them in check. Both of those also only Draw 2-3.

The one I was talking about was the last section of Shieldhaven prison, where the Servants start out at around 5-distance away, making it pretty much impossible to kill any of them on start, and with their multiple move cards, also nigh impossible to catch. So unless you're lucky with finding Fireball or other thing that'd cut down on those Raise the Alarm, the boss guardsman and his dog will pretty much always have an equivalent to Draw 6-7 each round.

The time I managed to won that fight was not really with strategy, but rather with luck on getting enough draws to kill one of the boss in a turn, and Gary passing the turn rather than finishing off my character to make enough space to move the other boss in behind Wall of Fire and preparing to chow on my priest (and I know he could've, there's the revealed move card on that dog)

 

I also had a particularly difficult time with dogs. The issue lies in their very high mobility, solid damage, and damage attacks that also include movement and/or bonuses for flanking damage (backstabs). This makes them a terror to fight in the open, and even in the later level where you have blocking terrain their high movement means you have about one turn to position yourself before you are engaged. The servants don't help matters as they just add to their mobility and card pool. It's a very strong level and difficult to overcome unless you can burst them down very quickly, I had to leave it and return when I was higher than the listed level requirement.

 

I am having trouble with the lizard priests as well. I have conquered even the level six zombie zone at 5 and the lvl 5 demon gate at lvl 4. I am still getting my but kicked on the first level. Largely horrible draws when i play that level.

I dont know if anyone else is having this problem, or if it really is a problem since I know the draw is randomized. But the higher i go in level the harder its getting to draw an attack card. I am attempting the lizard priest level again and in the first zone my lvl 5 wizard has gone 3 full rounds without drawing an attack card the odds on that are staggering with the gear i have on him. And its a fairly common accurance. And on some adventures like the Lizard Priest thats a practically a forfeit. Even my cleric who is more battle oriented kept drawing armor and movement cards. Thats not really a problem when I am playing the earlier levels but the higher levels having a lot of armor is not enough to help me endure the onslaught of some of the mobs with no armor but high attack power to compensate.

I have played cards games and PnP roleplaying games for years so I know sometimes its simply luck of the draw or roll of the dice. However I wonder if there is some kind of ratio for drawing. I mean i know you always get a movement card, but what about the others. I have one particular draw back and its constistatly comes up in battle. Does it have higher odds to do that because its a drawback? I can understand doing that to balance some items out.

Writing up randomized code can be a pain the ass i know from experience and i am sure it is only worse when you are trying to do it in a frame work of a game of strategy and chance while still maintaining a good game balance. Its just I am noticing that some times NONE of my characters draw any form of attack cards now that I have unlocked all their level six slots. And really that is CRIPPLING. Once or twice, i would chock it up to thats the way it happens. But the fact the more i get into the game the more frequently it happens when I have yet to see an enemy go without at least one attack.

Dont get me wrong I love the game and am having fun and i am not looking to make it too easy, I am just concerned about the balance involved since I many times today I have known this battle was lost by the second round usually after I am at the second stage an adventure. If its just me having this trouble I will accept my lumps but if its not just me I wanted to speak out. Thanks

 

Monkey: Sadly it's probably you didn't have the luck I got with loots to deal with the lizards.

Between Spark wizard and Warrior with 2 spears that have 1 Strong Stab, 3 Stab and 2 3-damage penetrating attack, with a single or double Frenzy from my priest I can quickly kill the lizards as I push to one side of the map (and since all of my attacks were either penetration or stab, I also can ignore the slime's body card)

If I have to say, early on that lack of resources (loots or gold to buy new loot) really hold you down.
Once you clear White Star (chain after Diamond of Kobold) and get that gem (200g ) it really help things out.
That or use the pizza (look around for how to order the free pizza) <- I'm doing my best to avoid doing this but I'm also really tempted to buy pizza to buy all the treasure hunts...

 

As long as you only use it to buy treasure hunts i don't think you should hold back as that is the most likely thing you will buy once game launches anyway. If you intend to pve that is and unless you mind having some maps spoiled before launch.

 

monkey i feel with you...ive had a couple of situations where at least 2 of my guys not only did not draw any attacks but only got movement cards....on elves...while having to defend a chokepoint....but i have to guess thats just real bad luck and you can try to alleviate some of it by getting as little movement on your boots as possible(there are even a few with attacks out there)
would probably be nice if you were guaranteed to have a draw from one of your weapons every turn...would not necessarily be an attack card but the chance is higher...but i guess that would lead to other problems...like getting your strongest attacks over and over
so far i would say most of the perceived extreme difficulty comes from lack of gear for the job...ie when you are fighting the black ooze and about all your weapon drops were crushing ones...well you are almost completely boned(you can try to let him discard but thats it)...but once you get a few things like spears or pikes together with a mage that thing is easy
another example...i dont believe i would have managed some of the adventures i completed(especially not the kobold mines) if i had not got 3 hot spots in my deck

 

ive got to say another thing about difficulty especially concerning one adventure
i really like how it was done in white star...this adventure might be extremely challenging(since the enemy has overwhelming numbers on all maps) if you are not careful...but if you correctly utilizy terrain and chokepoints it is not all that hard...it could be that i just hit a power surge(got first talent and second staff) but i am pretty sure that i could have beaten this dungeon on level 4 or 5 utilizing the dungeon layout...
and well....i really like to have difficulty i can overcome by thinking about it and doing the right move(chess is one of my favorite games^^)...but a lot of hard challenges so far have been lack of gear that allows me access to the winning moves...you can somewhat work around it...and figuring out how is really fun too(like gouging trogs with double 3+ armor 4 and having close to no penetrating gear)
it probably would help if the shops had more varied gear...it does not need to be really powerful...it just needs to have a little bit of everything...probably including drawbacks but at least you can get the basic counters you need

 

Generally, so far I've found that the game maintains challenge in three main ways. In the very beginning, the challenge comes from a relative lack of options as far as items and slots go. Personally, I think this could use some adjusting. However, as Sir Knight said, the design is that way on purpose to ease you into increasing breadth of options. After that, the challenge comes in understanding how the system is put together on increasingly broader levels. I've said it in other threads, but early on that was my biggest obstacle to playing the game. Understanding how to effectively manage my Warrior and utilize my Elf's mobility made adventures I struggled with much easier. I'm not certain there's really too much that can be done to teach this level. Sure, you can read about it, but it really comes down to understanding that comes from playing the game. Finally, my experience has been that the challenge comes from learning the adventures. The first time around I'm usually ill-equipped to handle at least one battle. Usually I'll play through twice, either winning the second time (luck-based) or wiping the second time (tactics-based). I usually get it on the third try after adjustments.

So far, there have only been three levels/battles I've had serious issues with and suspect may need adjusting. The first troglodyte level took me forever to beat; I think trogs especially are under-valued for what they bring to battle. The relative lack of Step cards and lack of real understanding of the system didn't help matters any. I've seen it mentioned, but the Prison Yard battle in Escape From Shieldhaven was brutal; it's very difficult to compete with the dogs in mobility. Additionally, there's a lack of defensive options at that level (5, iirc) - there aren't many Blocks at that level that can handle the high damage the dogs do; Armor is similarly reduced in utility. Finally, the last battle in Lord Stafford's Treasure can be quite frustrating; unless you get lucky on your Move draws you need a long range Wizard to damage Stafford as he turtles in the treasure room. I think at least one space of difficult terrain could be removed to give Warriors at least a chance at getting to him before you lose to Victory Squares.

I've done a couple of the Challenges on levels, but generally I find them relatively uninspiring. Personally, I'd like to see a little more variety and creativity behind their design. Personally, I think the "All Class/Race" challenges are bland and could easily be default challenges on every level. I don't want to dilute the thread by talking about challenge ideas, but I'm picturing things along the lines of changing terrain (rising lava, traps, additional walls, etc) or global effects (players are Encumbered, Fire attacks negated, enemies regenerate). Obviously this would require a case-by-case basis depending on the level, and would undoubtedly be a lot of work that is probably outside the scope of the design goals right now.

 

I'll say this, having replayed multiple parties all the way to level 20, I can say this much: This game becomes infinitely easier with better gear. Hands down, the best weapon in the game is Blazing Shortsword. If your fighters have those, they become badasses. Multiples are ridiculous.

For those unfamiliar, it's a level 6 Epic Weapon that requires no talents to use. Has 3 Fiery Stabs (6 damage, range 2, burning 3, duration 2), Stab, Clumsy Chop and Combustible. The key is the no talent requirement. I use these even with high level guys and this weapon still measures up as the talent requirement then allows you the space for the crazier stuff like Reflecting Short Sword and Bejeweled Shortsword.

So, for those who are having a difficult time with the game, if they don't want to learn strategy, they can either open a bunch of magnificent chests in hopes of getting better equipment or just grind like crazy collecting gold until one shows up in one of the shops.

In any case, the more mediocre the equipment, the more cunning and observant you have to be. Maybe only a couple adventures are actually hard in an unfair way.

 

I know what you mean Nicole, finding Epic/Legendary (well, the ones that's good anyway...*cough*3lateral thinkings*cough*) especially for no talent really helps out with clearing things.

That moment when you draw Firestorm AND Resistant Hide against those Trog mages during Beneath the Frozen Earth chain and realize they have no armor in their hand...

The epic arcane item that have Firestorm is also lv 6...which seem to be the point where these great 0-talent items are (that 2 Firestorm legendary ring in Legendaries Find thread *drool*)

 

On that note: going back and doing earlier adventures with my awesome high-level gear (to check out the new game text), I think I see the breadth of game difficulty. They balanced it so that it's possible to play each adventure with your initial-run gear, and still meaningful to replay with your high-level gear.

Yes, there's a big difference between you having 6-damage attacks and 3-damage attacks, but it looks like they did the math so this difference brackets the "it's possible to win AND possible to lose" range for each adventure. On the one side, when I first played the beta I beat each module when I was "supposed to" without excessive replays of lower modules; on the other, I'm going back and beating them handily but I COULD still lose if, say, the enemy got the right draws or I refused to deckbuild properly.

Different topic:

I'd imagined that the store inventory "boost" would go to "17 + 21," that is, the 17 unique slots in the game plus a random assortment. Seeing 100 . . . I used to read all the card suites every day, but now it's too daunting for me to spend that time. I'll probably post this thought in the build thread, too.

 

I agree that the change in stock size of the stores will smooth out the curve. While working through levels 1-7 I hit a number of walls, where I just didn't have the cards build decks with enough damage. Most of my games became battles of attrition. Level 4 had some challenging areas but I hit a walls at level 5, 6, and 7.

• Level 5 - Rescue From Shieldhaven Prison
  • Map 3 - Prison Dog Yard
  • Map 4 - Prison Catacombs
• Level 6 - Diamonds of the Kobolds
  • Map 2 - Mine Entrance
  • Map 3 - Mineshaft
• Level 7 - The White Star
  • Map 1 - Gleaming Cavern
• Level 7 - The Throne of Strench
  • Map 1 - Frozen Warren

On these maps I ended up going back and playing other maps to get gear. I have not hit a wall beyond the Frozen Warren in the level 8 and 9 adventures I have played. My success on maps listed above increased as I had more options for cards. I had found few if any traits, slide/attack, ranged melee attacks, terrain modifying cards by level 5. It also felt like I couldn't create decks with many attacks. Eventually after replaying maps I found enough cards to make things work. I expect the addition of items in the store smooth out issues like I experienced.

Although I'll admit that 100 items seems like a ton of stuff. Lots of inspecting.

 

Having anything in the store not be random would make the store feel stale as those first 20 Or so things are always the same. Having a couple of pieces for every slot at a basic / common rating guaranteed but still randomly selected should be doable with the amount of items in the game right?