[suggestion] buff boo!

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by tolkien, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    I have found boo to be a throw away card for the most part. I've even tried running it as a buffer for my own warriors with arrogant armor but alas it's still not often useable. Since warriors and priests got some major buffs to their classes, i suggest making boo a little more powerful.
    Change the text to: create a fright card in target's hand.

    Don't give them a free dash. Make the spell easier to cast whilst running the risk that they draw a great card from the trait.
     
    Rehtael likes this.
  2. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob Thaumaturge

    ...and giving the opp the option to Cantrip pass.

    Interesting idea. Not sure if I like it since I haven't even run Boo! -- but then isn't that the problem? no incentive to run Boo! ?

    Remember, though, the card originally had no from-the-back condition:

    [​IMG]

    The way I hear it (since I wasn't there, aww), it was way too powerful on the test server, allowing wizards to shut down an entire enemy party to quite an extent, pretty effortlessly, round after round. I mean, Fright on a warrior just about amounts to attaching Stun; warriors can't even Purging Strike each other with Fright.

    Other than saying, I'd like to see Boo! playable enough that I see it ever in multiplayer, I don't have much opinion yet. Just thought I'd bring info to the table. $¦^ J
     
  3. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    How often do you have a warrior roll up to your wizard booty first? Never.
    Maybe instead of the 'behind' condition it could just be: range 1, create and attach a Fright instead of my earlier suggestion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
    Zugon and ParodyKnaveBob like this.
  4. Rehtael

    Rehtael Kobold

    Or just have a saving roll. I'm not fond of using RNG as a balancing factor, but you could probably work both, so if it's from behind you add +2 to the roll or something.
     
    tolkien likes this.
  5. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    My suggestion is to replace the text with:
    "Target enemy discards their hand and draws two cards."

    This disrupts whatever the opponent was trying to set up, but doesn't leave them completely helpless.
     
  6. Maniafig

    Maniafig Thaumaturge

    Boo! is one of those cards that's just really hard to balance since it's inherently unfun and very disruptive to have a Fright attached to a character and it's broadly and well-itemized and very spammable in a deck. I much prefer to have the card be totally unviable than spammed by wizards to completely lock down parties, which has happened to me on the test server and is as annoying as it sounds.

    This looks way too disruptive as well, the potential for card advantage is huge compared to Perplexing Ray and out of all classes wizards have the easiest time attacking enemies with large hands.

    Right now the card is an Attack card but to me it looks more like an Attack/Assist hybrid, considering it creates a Dash which is a positive effect barring Punishing shenanigans, and I've actually used it on allies a few times when I needed the Dash. If the card always creates a Dash but only attaches a Fright when targeting from behind then it would certainly be a lot better, though I suppose Assist cards aren't really meant to be in the wizard's domain.

    I can't really think of a way for Boo! to be both flavourful and balanced with its current Fright attachment effect, but I'd rather it stay as a niche card in SP against bosses than a MP staple shutting down any build that doesn't use anti-attachment armor.
     
  7. Rehtael

    Rehtael Kobold

    Here, I got something.
    Saving Roll: Create an Escaping Run card in the target's hand, create and attach a Fright card to the target. If you are behind the target, subtract three from the roll. 5+

    Escaping run at least gives the victim potentially more options, is still a sufficient move card, and now there's a chance for boo to not work from any direction.
     
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  8. gulo gulo

    gulo gulo Guild Leader

    I think if it wasn't on 17 of 30 new arcane items, it wouldn't be an issue, combined with the fact that it's next to impossible for a wizard to position behind anyone most of the time.

    I'd actually prefer it either hit them with Stun, or randomly chose from Fright, Trip, or Stun, maybe even Dropped Guard. In fact, maybe it would be better as a Radiation-like attack for wizards. No damage, but it hits you with a random drawback. True, wizards could have a lot of it, but they could end up doing next to nothing with it if it draws drawbacks that aren't effective.
     
  9. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    The behind requirement is really what kills this card for me. How about merely buffing it to read: Create a Fright and Dash card in target's hand.
    And the card stays silver quality because you can use it to great effect on your allies.
     
  10. Frostguard

    Frostguard Thaumaturge

    I thought I'd chime in because I was the one who made those abominations of decks during playtesting.

    Personally, I agree with Maniafig entirely. Warriors - let's consider warriors now for simplicity's sake, but wizards and priests (vampires) can get high attack density in their decks, and these are the kind of characters you'd want to put Boo! on, right? - often use three weapons with six attacks each. That's half their deck made of attacks, not even accounting for traits that cycle, and therefore will more often than not cycle into another attack. Creating a Fright card in the target's hand is very unlikely to change much about how ludicrously overpowered Boo! was during testing. It's drawing a card you're not going to be able to use anyway.

    I know it's a little annoying that we get a new silver-quality card that's almost useless. Yet again I'm going to concur with Maniafig. It's still better this way. If Boo! wants to work the same way it does now - attaching Fright to a target - then it really needs serious limitations. It's all fun and games until someone comes along and stunlocks (frightlocks?) your entire party without anything you can do about it. Whether the card is created in the target's hand or attached directly matters little in this way, Fright is still Fright, and that extra card isn't going to do much about it except maybe if you draw three different Traits from it, but the chances for that should be reasonably low, right? (And besides, anyone spamming Boo! will just target you once more afterwards.)

    The problem with Boo! is simply that its effect is very powerful. One of the most potent effects of the game, and that leaves no grey zone about it. If it's not useless, that is, there's a plausible way of using it effectively, then you're going to start seeing it everywhere in incredible quantities. If it's not, then you're not going to see it used much, simply because it's hard to use effectively.
     
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  11. gulo gulo

    gulo gulo Guild Leader

    It's cool having an expansion that has close to 0 items for one of it's classes that's usable for any sort of competitive multiplayer. And another class that you can get to the 1600s easily using only items from the expansion.

    Good times.
     
  12. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    I'm thinking along the same lines as gulo here. I'm running wolf warriors like many others.
    I'm a triple priest man myself but the vamp kiss also got nerfed to no use. It's almost worse than invigorating touch.
    I hear you that fright in hand or out makes little difference. I like range 1 as a limitation instead of 'from behind.' Gulo taught me to beware getting in a wizards face. Cf retrrat and escaping run. Priests have a range 1 spell, why shouldn't wizards?
    Full disclosure I didn't playtest.
     
  13. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob Thaumaturge

    I was talking with someone else the other day about Boo! having your no-from-behind-condition-but-range-1 idea. At the time, I was saying I liked that. However, sometime later it hit me, it wouldn't be much good against wizards, and even a lot of priests wouldn't bother being near a wizard for the most part. On the other hand, I'm just now remembering they have Counterspell which has nearly no effect on warriors.

    I liked that idea more than gulo gulo's, I think, but I do also like gulo gulo's. Range 6, attach a random handicap, but yeah, maybe only pick from a short few thematic ones. Fright, Trip, Defensiveness, Mind Leak, possibly even Dropped Guard or Fumble (if it's changed for cards to be created in-hand instead of attached). However, an Attack that gives a Move and a random Handicap Trait (even from a select few) in hand, guaranteeing another drawn card (barring opp using Stun I guess), might decrease the card's quality anyway. I mean, the current Boo! probably wouldn't turn ppl off from using it if it were like Paper quality or something, right?

    Side note: priests have at least two Magic cards at Range 1.
     
  14. Rehtael

    Rehtael Kobold

    Iunno, I thought mine was pretty good... -_-
     
  15. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    How about this:
    Create a Panic card in target's hand. If you are behind the target create and attach a Fright card to target as well.
    Edit: changed scatter to panic thanks to some sharp eyes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  16. timeracers

    timeracers Guild Leader

    With this Boo! would be new old whirlwind enemies (or allies).
     
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  17. Dark Brightness

    Dark Brightness Orc Soldier

    Well the problem as many people said the current "Boo" is too weak and useless in ranked,but in the test servers,where u didn't needed to be behind target,was overpowered.I think the whole idea of attaching fright was bad and it was too unbalanced to try messing with. As u know in ranked in one round the whole game can be determinited.Also the fright is one of the worst debuffs u can find around on the ranked and one of the most powerful one.
    I would say that the thing which must change is it's effects,the whole idea of it,but it's really hard to do so,since the whole meaning and even the name of the card,is to "scare away the opponent". The only balanced idea,which would be more acceptable from both sides,is that "Boo" can be casted normaly on the target,without the need to be behind the target,but the mage would also get the trait "Trip" or something else similar.
    That would balance things out,since u can make a unstopable warrior to become unable even to touch you,which is more like beating someone and the other person can't react otherwise expect running.
     
  18. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    I actually rather like this idea (except I'm assuming @tolkien meant Panic rather than Scatter!). In which case it is not WWE, but just "whirlwinding" one character. The only thing I don't like is that one of the trade offs to the old WWE was that your opponent got to act first after you hit the random button. With Panic, because it is a mandatory action, the caster of Boo! would actually get the first play. So to keep it reasonable I think either Panic would need to gain cantrip, or simply have Boo! cause the panic effect, without actually creating the card.
     
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  19. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    You're right @Scarponi I meant to say Panic. But you make a good point about turn order. I also have a minor concern with introducing panic more into the game as a mapmaker myself. Panic can serve as a random end around answer to certain map strategy problems.
    I think this may be where we're going:
    Place target on a random square within two squares. Set its facing randomly. If you are behind the target, create and attach a fright card to target.also.
     
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