Make Altruism what Holy Clerics do

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by Dorque, Jan 25, 2013.

  1. Dorque

    Dorque Orc Soldier

    If I cast Inspiration, I am trading a card for a card and losing a turn. Better for me to just attack myself. If I cast heal, I am healing 4 instead of doing 6. And losing a turn. At best a stall.

    But Altruism gives a 50% chance for either of those to not cost a card. Search on the word Altruism in the cleric threads and it is almost taken for granted that it is part of what makes clerics good. I think the 50% card draw should be part of the Holy keyword naturally.
     
  2. Zoorland

    Zoorland Goblin Champion

    So you're asking to have this mechanic automatically added to more cards? No.

    Altruism is not a necessity on Priests to begin with, and there are other cards later on that do similar things much better. When it does show up it is a welcome benefit, but it needs to be kept conditionally tied to a specific card or it will burn through the deck far too quickly.

    Besides, "just attack myself" doesn't apply if you have no attack card in hand or are out of range to use it. Healing is always, in every respect, a "stall," no matter if it's in this game or any other. Whether it heals 2 or 4 or 8 or 999 it's still just a stall against death. Healing works perfectly well here keeping characters alive longer, it's not a waste.
     
  3. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    This seams really bad, the card is there for a reason you cant just roll it in to every holy spell. Imagine warriors getting the same treatment just increase all slashing crushing or penetrating attacks with 1-2 respectively and wizards same thing.
     
  4. Dorque

    Dorque Orc Soldier

    You can't burn through a deck. It shuffles.

    Since I'm saying an attack is better than a heal, you can't say a heal is better because I might not have an attack. The attack I have has replaced the heal. So I have one.

    So even being generous and saying a heal is a perfect stall (pretend it says "undo last attack"), what happens after? We used one card each, but the monsters draw more. 1/6 of your turn canceled 1/8 of Gary's.

    ...wut? This is the same as increasing fighter damage by 2?


    But anyway, how about if all heals were cantrips? Still a card loss, but at least it's a speedup. Could do both on different cards even to get more vi-arity.
     
  5. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    Now we are talking some kind of sense. The small 2 hp heal being a cantrip would make it remotely more playable compared to now.
     
    Kaerius and Zalminen like this.
  6. TheRev

    TheRev Orc Soldier

    My fighter has around 20 attack cards, and I still get lots of rounds where I just don't draw a single one of them. It sucks sometimes, but it does happen, and not to mention not all gear has attacks on it.

    I might be misunderstanding here.. so correct me if I understood ya wrong

    Since there is a limited amount of attacks, undoing one (The right one of course) would be huge. Not all attacks are equal, and if you undid the one that hit for 20, and all they had left were 6's that is a great advantage. I do think heals should be buffed a little bit (IMO) but they work not only because your "Soaking" one of their cards, but they will not get that card again until after they go through their whole deck. Meaning if they have just one that card is gone till they go through whatever they have left.

    Sure ya might get unlucky and it is the end of the deck or something, but still..
     
  7. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

    I think Inspiration is a really powerful card, even without Altruism. My two priest, one warrior party is very heavily dependent on it.
     
    SurgeonFish likes this.
  8. SurgeonFish

    SurgeonFish Automaton Moderator Staff Member

    as is mine with a single priest warrior/wizard setup. i use my priest to push cards faster on my other two who need cards. Making Altruism a standard will take away that option and encourage that kind of play as standard for anyone who uses a priest instead of making their own choices.

    Plus if the numbers are good with you, you could indefinitely keep drawing cards by healing allies.
     
  9. TheRev

    TheRev Orc Soldier

    But if I remember right Altruism is a 4+ which gives ya at least a 50-50 chance of working (Though with my luck I need more round 90 lol). It has good chances, but it would be nice to have something to stack it with like I do for something like attack boosts or Fire. Not saying it is necessary to make it good, just would be nice =)

    Or maybe something for Unholy cards.. Since most the draw cards I have that are more then one are just that.
     
  10. SurgeonFish

    SurgeonFish Automaton Moderator Staff Member

    honestly as is, Altruism should be higher rarity card, because it changes the entire tempo of the priest class. being able to draw multiple cards in a turn is outright fantastic (scale of 1-10, this would be an 8 or 9 rated card) and is a must have for any low level adventurer
     
  11. TheRev

    TheRev Orc Soldier

    Maybe I am not seeing it, and I get it is a good card, but I don't know about that good. Even with it in any practical sense your only going to get a handful of cards from it. Don't get me wrong like I said it is a cool card, but lets not go overboard here =)

    Again though, maybe I am missing something with it, and don't understand the full "Potential"?
     
  12. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    Think like this every inspiration gives you 1.5 cards and every buff or heal gives you half a card for i think 3 turns right? That is really good before you try to break it and just silly after you try to break it. I cant see my self giving it a 9 since it forces holy to keep rolling but i would easily give it a solid 8/10.
     
  13. TheRev

    TheRev Orc Soldier

    Also is it a known issue (Or has anyone else) ran into Heal not triggering Altruism ? Actually... never mind.. lol.. targeting someone else.. keyword there :p
     
  14. SurgeonFish

    SurgeonFish Automaton Moderator Staff Member

    Law of averages. Most card draw cards only give you one or two cards. Altruism lasts for 3 turns and can potentially be affected by 6 cards if you draw all support cards then. At a 50% chance thats 3 card draws. When you draw the cards you can draw more support cards raising this number. If you build for primary support, its possible to draw a metric ton of cards. Hence why this card is amazing.

    The only thing that compares is the cards that allow you to draw up to 6 cards to find at least 2 of something, but what they are looking for is specific like block/armor/attack/magic and the like. Altruism really is in a league of its own and makes the next three turns for your priest amazing. Ive literally drawn 8 additional card because of altruism in the course of 3 turns, now thats over powered.
     
  15. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

    Yeah, Altruism is almost certainly over-powered at the moment.
     
  16. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    What would be the fix for it capping it at 1 card per turn but giving it 100%?
     
  17. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

    We don't write card rules like that since they would refer to some secret piece of state that isn't tracked somewhere (how many times it has triggered so far).
     
  18. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    Right well maybe tuning down the duration to get somewhat of a lessened effect without retracting from what the card does then.
     
  19. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    How about just raising the roll for Altruism to trigger? Altruism/Inspiration combo is a bit too good atm.
     
  20. mightymushroom

    mightymushroom Goblin Champion

    It was not so long ago that I was starting out and scrabbling for every card I could get, and often rued the die when Altruism failed. In my experience it's fair at the start of the game when it's pretty much the only card draw, and I would hate to see it nerfed to being pointless early.
     

Share This Page