[Suggestion] Laser whip upgrade?

I love the concept of the Laser Whip but I just feel like the Laser whip needs something. It is a great card but because of its range limitations it is very niche. Plus because of its range limitation you have also done your enemy a favor by using it because if it malfunctions they are safely outside of any negative effects. Not to mention the fact that at close range it is effectively a dead card. It is an Emerald card but it is practically a negative trait since it's like it has perma Defensive built into it sans the saving roll. I mean it is only 5 extra damage over Impaling Strike if you roll perfectly except Impaling Strike can be used at close range, has penetration and no chance to malfunction.

I'm really not sure what to do because I like the card it is an interesting mechanic but it just has so many down sides. Making it a step so you can move back if need be just seems sorta meh with so many other step cards in the game.

Maybe something like
Push 1 at the start of the attack might make it more useful but then it sorta becomes a high damage Barge.
Or attacking multiple targets within the arc would definitely make it more desirable but still harder to use.
Or maybe Minor Erratic Damage at close range with Major Erratic Damage at long range?
Adding Hard to Block might be another potential that would fit thematically
Maybe some combination of the above?

I dunno like I said it just feels like it could use something to really push it into an Emerald.

 

I was disappointed to learn that there wasn't more to laser whip.
Adding push would be interesting. to be able to push from range 2 without moving yourself would be something new and unique for melee.

To add a crazy suggestion, how about the option to attack at range 3 with a guaranteed malfunction as consequence?

 

Personally, I'm disappointed that the game finally has a whip card, and it doesn't have a chance to apply the Trip handicap to the attacked target.

Still, 2-range no-move push does sound interesting, and Laser Whip definitely is uninteresting to me as-is.

 

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Let's sit on this one and see where it lands. Laser Whip was so good on test that we had to reduce its base damage to the current level, after which point it was still very strong. And that was before we made 3/4 of the malfunction cards Cantrip which buffed all the laser attacks by making them not lose you the game 1/3 of the time. So... let's give it room to prove itself.

 

A perfectly reasonable suggestion. I accept.

 

Don't ever quote me partially.

 

Well, you know my interest is always in 'what is more fun', rather than the pvp balance.
So my main chip in this is getting the card to feel more distinct and interesting.

Of course, this entire expansion has been awesome for me, on the 'what is fun' element, so I can't really complain if one or two things don't stand out ;P

 

Wouldn't dream of it.

 

Actually the more I think about it the ranged barge would add a nice bit of utility to the whip. I was thinking more along the lines of being able to push people away so you could whip them but being able to effectively push/pull them to you after the initial attack would also be pretty cool. Sorta like a Scorpion "Get over here!"

Still a very niche card since it would have no utility at close range tho.

 

@Flaxative : Okay, having played with Laser Whip, I can now assure you, it's not at all worth the hassle as-is.
the 1 extra point of base damage and +1 reach over the silver 7/1 laser attack is partially mitigated by the adjacency factor; at the very least, enough that the distinction between the two is NOT worthy of the difference between silver and emerald tiers.
Flat out, it is not a card worthy of emerald status, and its extremely high cost means the remaining cards on Whip-based items are usually rather weaker than what you could find on other citadel items.

Perhaps I'm missing some brilliant PvP usage, but as is, it is definitely a card I would never, ever willingly equip.

Without the addition of something useful like the trip function, it simply doesn't feel like a proper emerald card.


Or rather, lets assume that +1 reach / -1 min reach counter out to +2 base damage (though depending on circumstance, it could actually be a drawback as much as a bonus, so it really should be +0).

Lets say Major Erratic damage equals roughly +3.5 damage (and that requires assuming malfunctions are as often positive as negative).

So we're talking a 13.5/1 card, at best.
(At the bottom end we can take an estimated value of about 10)

Anvil Strike is a 8 or 13 (average 10.5) card with guaranteed stun 1. Lets value stun at 1 blocked card, or roughly 8 points of damage, though in PvE it's almost always worth far more than that.

That'd put you at a about +50% value over Laser Whip.
Sure, it's subjective, but stun is damn useful, and the damage difference is minimal between the cards overall, so certainly a valid comparison.


Point being, right now Whip might pass as a gold card (though personally, I'd value it at silver), but definitely not Emerald.

It needs a special effect, and applying Trip seems most thematic, and definitely makes a good contrast to Anvil Strike's stun.

Regardless of items that actually have emeralds available and their worth, if the expensive card in an item fails to meet its cost, then the items with that card end up being overpriced.



tl;dr: The problem with Laser Whip is, it's flat out not emerald tier quality, but it costs emerald tier prices.


PS: The 2x Emerald Whip items are so terrible because of this. -.-;
Look at those low-appeal bash cards, especially if you consider Laser Whip as comparable to Laser Strike.

 

No. Major Erratic damage on average gives 3.5([1+2+3+4+5+6]/6=3.5), Minor Erratic damage on average gives 2([1+1+2+2+3+3]/6=2).

 

Bad comparison, if you didn't notice but Anvil Strike has some terrible Itemization. Let's look at the only 2 items with it.
Laserstick: Anvil Strike, All out Attack, Push The Button, Laser Strike, Flaring Laser, Raging Strike.
Massive Club: Anvil Strike, Devastating Blow, Bash, Bash, Simple Bash, Large Weapon.
Anvil Strike: I love the power of it being a nice damage card with Stun, I would totally play 3 anvil strikes + 3 paper cards being a double major token weapon, but you should realize the stun isn't useful if you kill the target with this.
All out Attack: is great in combination with high damage cards
Push The Button: it's quite random and doesn't compensate with having higher rated cards made by it but you even have random cards that might not work well at the time you push it(ie: Laser Cutdown, Laser Whip, Flaring Laser), in conclusion I like to avoid it.
Laser Strike: loses to those classic 11 damage attacks by 1/2 a damage and can malfunction
Flaring Laser: even if it is blocked it doesn't do a lot of damage for the cost of being a Bronze+ I don't think it is worth it
Raging Enemy: I hate this you get 1 extra point of damage but you can pay tons for the vulnerability it gives. A vulnerability of 3 let me remind you. Sometimes I just which it was a simple bludgeon.
So the first weapon I think has some good cards but with the raging strike and the unfocused nature of it, I think it barely counts as playable
Devastating Blow: it can do lots of damage if you 'scout' the enemy otherwise I fine it is generally weaker than the 11 damage attacks
Bash: Bashing has it uses but the difference from Bash and Simple Bash is not worth 3 rating if you are not making use of the boost.
Simple Bash: Not bad damage if you can put them in a hot spot or other damaging terrain if you want to keep warriors away it can be quite useful.
Large Weapon: Anvil does extra damage if the target is next to the wall this will cancel attacks 1/2 the time if you are next to the wall which makes this trait not worthwhile unless you have purges.
So the second weapon I think has Anvil Strike but the other cards are meh or worse making it less worth while then the prior Anvil Strike weapon

 

Potent stab only does 3.5 less damage doesn't malfunction isn't restricted to only range 2 and has 5 less rating(which means you could have 2 potent stabs(14) for cheaper than a Laser Whip and a Able stab(15)). Impaling Stab does 2.5 less damage doesn't malfunction has penetration isn't restricted to only range 2 and has 2 less rating(which means you could have 2 Impaling stab(20) for 1 more rating than Laser Whip + Potent Stab(19))

 

*And in my calculations, I forgot to add in Soltis' very fair point that malfunctions tend to favor your enemy with Laser whip's range profile :X

Playing with laser cards a lot, I can say that planning for malfunctions to be positive (or at least, as positive as it is negative) for you is critical to making laser cards work- and not doing so tends to be why people tend to have a bad impression of laser cards as being unreliable :X

For example, I always try to be near enemies, not within LoS of allies, and with movement cards left, when using a laser card.

While all laser whip really hurts on is battery explosions, it tends to make malfunctions a bit trickier to make beneficial in general.

Nevermind that in PvE swarm maps, if you get pinned against a wall, that +1 min-range handicap is WAY more a penalty than the +1 max-range is a benefit :X
Really noticed that on the Storge maps in Troll Tyrant..

Anyway, the more I play with Laser Whip, the less I want to, so I'm going to go back to ignoring it, now

 

I do have to say, why would +1 damage and a range handicap suddenly make Laser Strike emerald quality?

Laser Whip was quite powerful during testing, but any big damage attack is, for that matter.

 

The range is not simply a handicap. It has an added restriction, so it is weaker than range 1-2, but range 2 is still better than range 1 if you build for it.

EDIT: That said, I'd be okay with Laser Whip being base 9 damage, or penetrating for its current cost.

 

In the case of lasers, I do think range 1 is better than range 2. Many Laser drawback cards affect not only you but your opponent as well. By forcing a range 2, these laser traits are unable to affect your opponent.

On a side note, one can only stack 4 of them in a deck as well, so it may be somewhat difficult to completely build around it.

 

I should try a nimbus laser build some day.

 

Another option, and thematically might fit nicely for a whip, would be to add Hard to block 2.