[SUGGESTION] "GM/AI opponents only" mode for MP (with reduced rewards)

Blue Manchu, would it be possible to create a "GM/AI opponents only" mode for multiplayer? The rewards would need to be reduced, of course, to make farming it non-lucrative. It goes without saying that the mode should not affect MP ranking.

Many players do not find playing online against other humans enjoyable due to the higher stress involved, their physical limitations or other reasons. They would instead enjoy playing on the MP maps (which also change monthly) against the challenging GM teams. I'm under the impression the CardStock II Secret Preview adventure is one of the most popular ones for these reasons but it's a static one and gets stale after a while.

This mode would provide more variety for SP-oriented players -- and a chance to practice against the AI for MP players. I bet it would be popular even with common/brown reward chests only. It would be a form of SP endgame content which is currently lacking and I imagine it would not be a lot of work to implement. Seems like a win-win to my amateur eyes.

The only possible downside I see is it might lower participation in human-to-human MP if some players who now (half-reluctantly) play it would switch over to GM only. I'm not sure it would be that many who would do that as I think most who like MP want to test themselves against other people and enjoy the challenge and prestige involved and like watching their ranking develop.

I think this mode would lure a lot more people into MP who have not previously participated -- and who knows, maybe after hanging around in the lobby and mingling with our merry player crowd they'd be encouraged to finally give human-to-human MP a try?

The mode would also help to sustain the interest of players who have exhausted the SP content and retain them as customers for a longer time.

Please consider adding this mode to Card Hunter. Thank you!

 

Hard to see much downside with the suggested rewards.

It might also be handy to test out experimental builds.

 

I just realized there's the question of ranking as affecting GM team selection. The ranking would be unchanging for a player of this mode of MP only so they'd get the same opponent each time (or almost same depending on the natural GM team ranking fluctuation).

Suggestion: To keep things simple just pick a random GM team each time for this mode. Sure, it would provide too hard matchups for new players part of the time but otherwise it should be fine. This way there would be no need to expend development resources on a more elaborate solution.

If a matchup was too hard for a player, they could just resign immediately with no repercussions. Not the most elegant thing in the world but it works. It would also make the mode exciting as you'd never know who you'd get. The mode could use some variety in opponents even if some kind of ranking bracket system was used so random or semi-random teams would be a good feature in any case.

 

Yes, it would be very nice for that also, a very good idea!

 

I bet players would be interested in creating new GM teams for this mode. If you have a developer system for easily plugging in new GM teams you'd probably get more content variety from players than you knew what to do with.

You could even use the premade parties from the shop for this, for one thing. Let people see them in action as a form of advertising.

Just a thought, not to drown the original suggestion in feature creep already. KISS aways applies, of course. Seems to be very fertile design ground though, hmm? Food for thought?

 

This thread makes me happy.


I've always been a fan of randomization, and since my issue is time limitation/time-induced stress/player-induced stress based, there's no complaint on my end about facing totally overwhelming teams [to the contrary, far more interesting than totally underwhelming ones].

On the flip side, other players tend to prefer more gradual incline-

So perhaps have a full fledged PvE-PvP mode:

Have three difficulty slots, with rewards scaled to difficulty.
So you could do
"Basic Competitive Duel (PvE): Fight basic opponents, and get a feel for Card Hunter's PvP mode! For players new to pvp. Basic chest rewards, no penalties for resignations."
"Standard Competive Duel (PvE): Fight from a random roster of PvE opponents, designed to present a balanced challenge to players! For all players looking for an engaging experience. Basic chest rewards, plus a basic gold chest (akin to the first PvP chest) for every 5th win. No penalties for resignations."
"Advanced Competitive Duel (PvE): Fight from a random roster of the most challenging PvE opponents, designed to utilize your full strategic capabilities! The first time you reach 5 wins in this mode each day you gain an improved gold chest (equal to the one just before the epic chest in the pvp roster?). You are limited to 2 resignations a day, any resignations beyond that point will count as a loss. Each time you run this mode, there is a small chance you will find a basic gold chest (first PvP chest). This chance scales to the number of consecutive won games you've played (capping at 20% chance)."


Something like that? Seems a bit complex on the surface, but I like how it sort of approaches all player bases- and that the advanced mode both doesn't force you to only play it each day (if you're able to), but it does still provide an incentive for players to keep playing the odd match after the fifth one.


Eh, of course, I'd be fine with any PvE mode for it, regardless of implementation, so

 

So what's the difference between this mode and playing a casual game against the computer? I mean, you can have infinite time in a casual game, and you can resign too without making the GM computer angry. Looks to me like chests, and having random opponents/boards is the only improvement.
Still, it's an interesting idea. You could argue that this will mean more PVP or more PVE, either way it's something to do.

 

The difference, at its heart, is structure.

No matter how its implemented, there's a strict 'You encounter this, you interact with it in this manner, and you have these gains from it."

Casual matches are more of a 'approach it how you will, with no limits or concerns, but no gains, either.'

But since the entire basis of the game is collecting gear, that sort of has to be a component on any compelling game activity.

Most distinctly, as you said, it's 'something to do'.

And randomization- randomization that's out of your control as a player- is definitely far more interesting than casual matches, or rehashing campaign matches.

 

Jade: Ah, but the reward chests are a crucial thing. It's much more motivating to be getting something for your playing time. Play is of course motivating in itself but getting shinies for it is even more fun to our lizard brains. We're all just wired that way.

The random maps/opponents are also a big thing. The point of the mode is to stave off boredom and the more variety there is the more it fulfills its purpose.

Which are both sentiments DunDunDun already expressed but hey, I'll gladly get on that bandwagon! I'll play the triangle.

 

You could just use the test server?

 

And my last point is that i want to farm Brown/Magnificent chests

 

If you were born to a Lizard i dont want to know what you look like.... says me... who was born in the Darkness..... ... .. .... ... .. . . ..

 

Well sure, but that's a lot more cumbersome. What I was thinking was that in addition to the other reasons given, this would be a very handy way to tweak your build by playing it against the AI in the same format as regular ranked games, with the push of a button... especially since, not being actually 'ranked' or involving other players would presumably mean you're free to quit and re-tool as often as you want.

 

It would also be a handy way of practising on new MP maps when they rotate.

 

Was linked here, I like this suggestion.

 

I can see only one downside to this suggestion. I think it's a bit of a doozy though. Its real impact is impossible to judge.

I think that a lot of people are reluctant to give ranked play a go, but try it and find that they like it and end up becoming a contributing member of the ranked community.

I'm not personally into competitive play all that much, but I was sucked into ranked CH this way, basically because Gary told me to. If there was a similar alternative, I fear I might not have taken to it quite as I did, and probably wouldn't have stuck with the game as much as I have. I understand that there's people who've tried it and found it definitely wasn't for them, however, I think there's a risk that the addition of the proposed play option would reduce the influx of new players to the multiplayer pool to an unsustainable level, or at least a less healthy level - and potentially deprive people like me of finding something they end up loving. Because I suspect that if the proposed option was available, I wouldn't have progressed to true multiplayer in a serious way.

I think I agree with Jade303. The option to play against the AI exists in custom game options, and - something which hasn't been mentioned in this thread - I think that including a non-ranked PvAI option could both detract from ranked by depriving it of players, and detract from players' potential enjoyment by putting them in a situation where they never learn to love ranked play.

 

Keep in mind, there's no randomized/end-game content for PvE, and it has stagnated in the past due to this shortcoming.
Co-Op has invigorated it for those willing to play such, but it's still pretty swiftly repetitive for single-player only, and it's bound to become that way again for us playing co-op.

IE, we need such a function, and negatively impacting a core set of the playerbase with guaranteed negative effects seems less an issue than potentially impacting part of a core set of the playerbase with possible negative effects.

Just to be clear, we never proposed it'd be equatable- PvP should basically always have better rewards per-match.
This is more a matter of feeling like we have something new to do in PvE while still making in-game-progress, than it is about competing with PvP players for rewards.


That said, being a sort of end-game-minded content, access to it would start by beating the campaign, presumably.

With PvP being introduced at renown 5, a lot of your concerns seem as if they would be mitigated by the gap in access between the two features.

 

I don't want to be dismissive, but this isn't filling a niche that the general playerbase needs. The game has a huge variety of content: the campaign, treasure hunts, AoA, EttSC, quests, Fairy / Bandit hunting, coöp, and farming. If you've exhausted all of those, and have no interest in regular MP, leagues, and player-run tournaments, it's okay. Take a break from the game, or get your daily fairy and hang out on the forums until new content comes out. Or fight that lizard brain and have fun without maximizing your rewards. Play casual games versus the AI if that's really what draws you, or participate in player-invented challenges like nudie runs.

Sky Citadel came out less than a month ago. If you're tired of it by now, a few chests added to casual games isn't going to hold your attention for long. It's awesome that Card Hunter has players who've invested so much time into the game, but they'll always want new content faster than the dev team can make it.

On the bright side, a randomized infinite dungeon would fill this niche while also introducing new, exciting content for the general audience. No doubt they'll release one eventually.

 

Vholes, this suggestion was written in February. It's not a reaction to EttSC.

I claim there is a lot of call for PvE team battles. It would be a popular feature. Most players never touch multiplayer no matter the circumstances. It's something like 90% or more of all players who simply will not play against a human, they'll rather not play at all.

It seems to me you underestimate the speed at which even average PvE-only players consume pre-created content. Only a few days after the Steam release of Card Hunter there were already many players in chat and on the forums asking "Is that it? Was that all the campaign content?" This feature would give them more to do and keep them around longer as players -- also giving them more time to be exposed to the great community we have and all the things that stem from that.

The feature I propose is also a different thing to all the other options you list. It's fun to beat up on the AI and to try out all kinds of different teams of yours without the pressure of human opponents and still get a little something at the end ot the match. It would be a sandbox for all to play in and enjoy.

Your comments made me think of a new subfeature which could be added to "GM/AI opponents only" mode for MP (with reduced rewards). Quick Draw! Having also this mode available in the feature would further expand it almost exponentially. There would never again be a lack of content for the PvE-only player.

That said, a randomized "infinite" dungeon would be a much more popular feature and should have priority -- and it indeed has it, as far as we can interpret the various hints and outright statements Flaxative has dropped during the last few months. Something like it is already in the pipeline.

I don't know if Blue Manchu can spare the resources or sees a need for also the suggestion proposed in this thread but I feel it would nicely complement and round out the options for players. With them both added Card Hunter would be just about the perfect tactical RPG with a stupendous amount and variety of things to do. There would be little need to play any other game ever again .

 

Sorry, I didn't notice this was a necro'd thread, the timing seems more reasonable now. I still think anyone who's tired of the existing content can play in this exact sandbox without asking for rewards — mostly so there's no risk of shrinking the available MP players. =)

PvE Quick Draw would be sweet; I would love to quick draw but haven't logged on at the right time yet. Seems like a big AI challenge though.