We dont need a drastic nerf at first time .. you could reduce Nimbus range by 1 or (better) 2 in next patch .. and see if it's still OP.. if it is, then we'll figure it out again.. Its not much.. and it shouldnt affect SP quests.. as you usually stick in group (except some melee 1HP groups).. but it would definitely affect MP usability
I've been spectating games to see what the fuss is about, but haven't seen nimbus spam. Is it used in top tier?
I thing fuss is mostly about people feeling frustrated .. not about power of the card.. same thing was with Vampires.. "its not fair that you can attack multiple times in a row" .. "its not fair that you can attack me and I cannot attack you" .. if it were OP, some nimbus spam deck would already rise to top .. I kind a agree that nimbus-spam can be annoying to play against .. (and I'm not saying that's not enough of a reason for nerf.. I'm "undecided" )
I saw a player or two in the 1500s using nimbus quite often today, so it is creeping it's way up. And while I still like my lose a card every time you prevent damage idea, I also like the idea of making it more rare. Nothing more frustrating than having someone apply two fresh nimbuses each round, and then if I happen to have enough fire attacks to clear one out? Out comes the third. Meanwhile, they are stockpiling movement cards (because what's the point of moving when you can't be touched), making any telekinesis/gusts of war I have ineffective when trying to get them off a VP. Especially a 1 VP map. There's next to no point continuing a game in that situation. I'm sure I sound like a whiner, and I am sure there are aspects of my own play style that people may not enjoy. If anything I use now in the game is changed, it's changed and I move on and deal with it. I just also think nimbus needs a tweak as well. I don't know, maybe these maps this month are making me salty. Certainly not kind to my three ladies. Oh well. Just my $.02.
Just curious: Are these nimbus builds using 2 nimbus clerics, or 1 nimbus cleric and a drawspam cleric?
I have, but I enjoy the party I have now. I also certainly recognize that this may be a weakness of the party I have, and if that's all it is, then so be it. However, there is no way to remove a nimbus as a mage unless you always have a counter spell available to get rid of the problem before it happens (and that doesn't always solve the problem), but over-relying on that causes a more severe detriment if facing a team that is devoid of priests or mages. Most of the time, trying to clear it out via new attachments is not a fruitful endeavor, as there always seems to be another nimbus waiting. I see more two cleric builds, nimbus-ing each other or whomever is camped; I think more of the drawing priests are looking for multiple frenzies to attach to someone. That, in turn would present an even greater need for counter spell, and not allow for other other preparations. I certainly realize that I cannot be prepared for any possible scenario I will face, and if this is the bane to my build, then I suppose I have to live with it. However, once I see more than one nimbus a round, or someone attaching nimbus before thy even move, it makes me just want to keep passing until the match is over. It sucks all the fun from the match for me, which is the strategy to try to determine how to win. Because the only strategies are: Change my build. I'm not really looking to do this; if I have to fall in line with what everyone else plays, I almost think I'd rather not play. I think the game is more fun when it allows for the success of multiple different ideas. I'm not saying every build should have the opportunity to get to 1600, 1700. But I'd rather not just be one party, playing against a replica of my party 15 times in a row. Attempt to use all my attaching attacks to clear out nimbuses. The only way I see this happening is if I switch to a party of three fire mages, and even then, it usually ends up with me wasting 3-4 attacks to do three damage, with no opportunity to see the fruit of the fire mage come to fruition. Maybe if Hot Flames penetrated anything, it could be worthwhile to take this route. Load up on counter spell and perplexing rays, which prevents me from carrying many terrain attachments, which are very important for three mages to carry. They need to stay away from everyone else, and you need to either prevent someone from getting to you, or make them use all their movement so you can get away. If I can't slow people down, I'm dead in three rounds. Continue as I am currently, and just be happy that I'm never going to be better than a 1491 player, at best. That's okay, but it really limits my enjoyment of trying to get better. I also certainly realize that this may very much sound like whining, and I apologize if that is the case. I am just one player, and my issues should not dictate how the entire game should be played. I'm just trying to provide some insight, and hopefully make the game a better one. I also recognize the importance of the nimbus in single player challenges, but I question the validity of a challenge where it basically forces you to have one special card to succeed. I'm sure there are other ways to defeat the challenge without nimbus, but it almost appears as if the challenge is set up to utilize the one card. Maybe I'm way off on that, however, as I almost never play single-player anymore, and have given next to no thought about completing challenges. There's my TLDR comment of the day.
No Gulo, not whining at all. Very insightful. Maybe I'm just lucky, I play in the 1500's, (unless I'm experimenting with a new build-which drops my rating), I only saw extreme nimbus spam once. Since I was running 2 warriors/1 wizard, there was nothing I could do about it and he just camped out the 1 victory square on the map. I feel that the recent maps have been really painful for me, as someone who favours elves, it's almost useless to run them with the plethora of stopping terrain and close quarters.
giving warriors more means to push of attachements would be an interesting angle to ease the nimbus situation a bit. Gotta say stun is a thing of beauty in a match against a nimbus spammer and not even wasted on a nimbused (?) opponent.
I can't refrain to point out (once again), if you go for a focused build (say, 2 war 1 wiz, 3 war, 3 wiz or whatever) there are always going to be instances where some other builds is going to have some kind of advantage over whatever your strategy is. The more focused your build, the more drastic the rock/paper/scissors game gets (you'll be very strong against some strats, but also very weak against others). I don't see anything inherently wrong with that, it's just a natural consequence to building a very focused party. I find it somewhat ironic when people lament any given card is OP, while still not realizing the real point is their build being weak against w/e. So, in the end (and this happens quite a lot with many cards/items, I'm not necessarily thinking about nimbus here) you end up with a lot of people whining about "Card XYZ is OP" while all they are really saying is "Card XYZ is killing mee please nerf it xD". I.e. many players perceive the fact they lose a lot vs. certain cards/strategies as an obvious balance issue, rather than taking the time to think about why is it they're having such a hard time dealing with anything specific and how to respond to it. In my book, a card/item/strat would need to make a player hit an unnaturally high win-rate against all sorts of builds [edit: for it to be considered unequivocally OP]. I think this is more of a case of almost all the players stacking mobility/step-attacks + pure-damage/buffs + tons of blocks not realizing they once in a while have to deal with builds which is actually effective against whatever they are doing. Introduce some more tech in your strats (bashes and/or control cards) or, for once, try going for a slightly more versatile build, and you'll easily deal with nimbus spam. I find the idea of giving warriors some (very limited) debuffing-capability somewhat interesting. If that ever gets implemented though, I just hope that doesn't end up leading to a situation where warrior-centric builds are perfectly capable of dealing with almost whatever other classes can throw at them. You shouldn't be so quick to give up. I actually don't think you would need to apply any super-drastic change to whatever your build is, in order to properly respond to nimbus. Rather, you should carefully analyze the issue: as soon as you take the time to fully understand the dynamics behind a build (any build) you have problems dealing with, you start to realize all the little ways you could make effective adjustments to your play/strat. I.e. in the case of 2x Nimbus Priest: - They can have 10x Imp Nimbus each. - Even if paired extreme deck-thinning/card-draw decks, we're still talking an average of 1.5 to 2 nimbus draws per turn as a rough estimate (total, not per-priest). - If they cast 3-4 (or more!) nimbus in a single turn, they likely got a lucky hand, which also means they'll have way less nimbus left in their decks. - In fact, you do want them to cast multiple nimbuses per turn, especially during the first couple rounds. Let them think they're thrashing you, then punish them hard when they finally have no more nimbus left to cast. - The more your opponent is investing in nimbus (and other "cheesy" cards), the less he'll be capable of threatening you with actual damage. I would suggest the following as possible ways for dealing with double priest spammers. - if he's trying to camp the VPs, let him do so (he'll need 6-7 rounds, typically, to win a match via VP camping alone. More if you're pushing him away via control spells) - spread out your damage over all of his chars (he'll have to cast more nimbuses, rather than focus on defending a single char) - reserve your big-spells for dealing the final blow to any nimbus-less character on low hp (i.e. "catch him with his pants down") Tiny adjustments you can make to your build: - include more control spells, these work wonders against campers of all kinds, especially when paired with terrain attachments (which I guess you like it a lot) - if you like 3x Wiz builds, don't have all 3 of your guys focused on a very strict set of cards (this makes your build very inflexible and very vulnerable to counter-builds) In the end, you need to realize a battle vs a nimbus build is first and foremost a waiting-game. You should focus on prolonging the match while waiting for the right time to hit him when he's the most vulnerable. Once you take one of his characters down, it's likely going to be a very easy win. If I had to stress any given piece of advice, that would be: resist the urge to change your build to something completely different from whatever you're currently using. Rather, if you think you're having too hard a time when facing a specific strategy, think of the tiniest possible change you can make in order to better deal with it. I would first focus on changes to "the way you play the game out" and, only then, considering changing some of your cards around in order to make your strat more versatile, if anything else seems to not be working only. Finally, accept the fact you're going to lose every once in a while (something which has very little to do with whatever your enemy strat is): sometimes you just keep getting bad draws while your enemy has all the good cards in his hand, turn after turn after turn.
Im gathering the nimbus spam equipment slowly but constantly When its ready I'll let you guys know so maybe I'll happen to see at least one of those anti-nimbus-wonders tactics in action...
Firstly, I guess I should clarify my point that nimbus is not over-powered. I think it's too available. It seems like too great of a card to be available so much. It should really be a card that you want to hold onto to use in the right situation, not a passable armor card to a teammate every round. It's the strongest type of these cards, when you think about it. It blocks everything, where a Resistant Hide or Grounding Plates is only condition-specific. Priests even have a mini-nimbus now with Armor Of Faith. In both instances for the priest, these are total invulnerability. I've tried exactly the strategies you described in your post. I've dropped from the 1300s to the high 1100s today. 12/14 matches I've faced today, from players ranked in the 1100s to the 1500s, used nimbus on multiple occasions throughout the match. By multiple, I mean at least 2 nimbuses for 2 or more rounds. Nimbus is the bane of a 3x wizard team. Plain and simple. There is no easy way to rid someone of it, and with the multitude of movement cards available, throwing a nimbused-character off a VP just results in them moving right back in. Terrain means nothing either if it's never going to have a negative effect. Wizards cannot wait for the right moment, as those same multitude of movement cards allow dwarven warriors to no longer need their racial move cards to get around the board with 8+ point attacks. Sitting and waiting means death, even more so on these boards. I'm fine with it at this point. I'm just a 1200s player with this team, and that's that. I took five months off after about a year or so of casual play, and started again in October of last year. I thought more regular play and the club membership for 3.5 / 4 months, to amass more items might help. I did reach 1491 once, but it's not consistent enough for me to consider myself a player of that level. Could I switch to a priest and two warriors/wizards and shoot up the charts? Most likely, I get a ton of those items all the time. But that's seems no fun to me, as that's all I face these days. I ran into three elf vampires today and was confused for a second, as I forgot what those were. Again, personal preference and personal problems. It just seems those personal issues of mine are running into what seems to be a more dominant part of the meta from the 1000s to the 1500s. Which can get quite frustrating. Haha. This is now rambling off into something for other topics or my personal blog or something, so I'll cut myself off. That being said, I do appreciate the strategy you brought up. I'm not finding it very effective, but I'm much more willing to concede that it's my own ability and a lack of items than your thoughts.
Feel free to express you own opinion man, your own experience is still good feedback So you're having problems with very mobile nimbus spammers specifically. Ever tried something like cold spells? Yeah I know, not the coolest school of magic these days. I'm thinking your real problem might be dealing with very aggressive, very mobile players. Being nimbus-trolled can only make you much more frustrated I suppose. If I would have to give you only one more piece of advice, that would be finding a training partner: ask him to put together the best nimbus build he can, and have 1 to 3 custom matches each day, if possible. Over time, you'll get a more solid understanding of what the build's pros/cons are and you'll naturally come up with ways to proper respond to it.
I amend all my previous statements. I have realized today that I am just not a good player in general, and cannot play well against any set-up. It seems like the money and the practice were all for naught. Especially on these maps. Too small for wizards, especially when warriors can have 9.7 million step moves. Thanks for all the advice, but none of it's going to help much. Two years of playing and I'm right where I started. Maybe I'll just spam nimbus now. Who knows.
@ gulo gulo, dont join the dark side my friend, I, much the same as you, get frustrated with the spamming. (you may have heard my rants in the lobby at times) It may be perhaps this particular rotation, at times i find myself resigning simply because i cannot endure a 20-30 min nimbus affair, whether that means winning or losing. I enjoy this game and will continue to, but nimbus remains a blemish
