November Balance Changes: Priests, Racial Skills, and more!

To be clear, I didn't say it is too strong -- just that it is still OP. It has less counters and less interesting things going on.

Preferably I'd say keep it in its current live state, but add "6+ Discard." And maybe have Bad Luck increase its roll -- that way it can increase the chance of it triggering but also discarding. Just an idea though.

 

I agree that reducing availability of dodge while keeping its orginal form might be the elegant solution.
Alternatively the "discard roll" someone mentioned.
And an original (to my knowledge) suggestion - reduced hand size (mindworm or arcane curse style). You gotta blend out other stuff and focus to dodge, you know?

 

So Over Powered means it has less counters and less interesting things going on, not that it is too strong? I'd missed that distinction until now. I'm still learning the lingo, I guess.

 

OP means it causes me to raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage. >:O

 

I still think dodge as a trait duration 2 or 3 is the way to go. Easier to counter, bonus of trait cycling, but limited duration no matter what. You lose the movement gain a card and a spot in your hand. Also it would make sense since most orange cards are traits.
But if they want to kill it with a 5+ roll I'm down with that.

 

You're a cat. Getting sprayed with a water hose causes you to rage. Even in hot weather. At least it works on the cats in my neighborhood. Fortunately, cat rage (bobcat or smaller) is largely ineffectual, and can usually be ignored. Provided you're not the sort who actually lets the nasty critters into your house.

I hope there is a middle ground. Too many people have invested heavily in Dodge for it to be nerfed into a worthless card.

 

Looking at the suggestions above, I think leaving dodge in current form for defense but remove the move and turn it into a 3 turn trait is an elegant solution.

Alternatively, the suggestion to leave dodge as is but add discard if X like Altruism is a good alternative as well.

Dodge in its current form is OP. But if we just reduce the odds to 5-6, it will probably nerf it too much and turn the card into a better version of Thick Mail.

 

Three traits on a shield, positive traits no less, is unprecedented. I think the current change to Dodge is pretty good at reigning it in without breaking it. I don't think the Altruism clause is enough to keep it from being too good since it's fairly easy to get backup copies in hand in the right build.

 

I assume the discard roll is in the fail section, lets say a 1. So if you got 2 dodges in hand, first one fails with 1 and gets discarded, then there is a new roll for the second dodge in hand with an equally open outcome. The one carrying it cant take too much chances, since each roll might cost him the dodge. I don't see a pressing problem with copies when they aren't even in play yet.

I guess making dodge simply "keep it til it fails" was too much luck mongering.

 

I assumed people wanted it to work exactly like Altruism. Rolling a successful 4 would discard it and allow you to move out of the way without triggering other copies. I would be against a discard on fail roll version. It creates a feel bad scenario of Dodge doing absolutely nothing.

 

IF .. someone decides for that "discard effect" -> make id "discard after efect" .. so let Dodge do its thing .. and then discard .. otherwise I believe it would not be playable

 

That's an interesting idea. You are suggesting Dodge works 100% with keep on 4+?

 

Actually I just wanted to point that Dodge must not have a roll where it would fail and be discarded. That' far too unreliable.

* Dodge works 100% with keep on 5+ --> So same as 1st suggested but improved with added "keep on 5+". - You wont have it forever.. main nerf-reason reached. And it has some chance to stay so it should be better than Surging Shield Block.
(4+ might be too strong .. as it works 100%)

Or my favourite:

* Dodge on 3+. Keep unless moved. -> So you will dodge only once. But you can choose what you would like to try to dodge. And as you dont have keep you get better dodge roll.. It would be better than Surging Shield Block (as it should be) but you wont have card advantage as intended. This might be the best solution .. and has some strategic options .. you can choose what to dodge.. Might even work on Dodge on 4+.

 

This is definitely what dodge should be. Being able to choose if you want to use a triggered dodge (including letting a weaker attack hit you in the hopes that you can dodge a bigger one) makes it a fun, strategic card. 3+ or 4+ is up for debate.

Biggest problem that jumps out: Defender's Block was already the worst designed OP card in the game, and with dodge getting worse, Defender's Block is now the undisputed champion.

 

Defender's Block is limited by its availability. At most you'll have 2 copy per character. Only shields have DB, and there is no shield out there with 3 Defender's Block. Additionally, it's single use only.

So DB is fine as is. Dodge is OP because of the "keep" characteristic. Once you take it away, it become a below average defense card. Hence the current debate about how to properly balance dodge.

 

2 copies per character is pretty insane for what it does. Not only does it fool the enemy into thinking they can get away with attacking while flanking the enemy, but it gives card advantage too.

It really needs to be changed so that both the owner and trigger character are facing the target. That and maybe also be removed with War Cry and other block removing things.

 

This only really applies to flanking cantrip moves. If you move behind a character and they don't turn around or move away you can be fairly certain a Toughness or Defender's Block is there. Defender's Block is a good way to counteract the cantrip Obliterating Bludgeon decks. I don't think changing it is necessary. There is already a high cost in running it.

 

What high cost? The only other viable shields contain Dodge and if that is nerfed then it makes Defender's the best.

If they don't turn around or move away it might be because they have no attacks or movement -- or simply are getting into position. The problem with Defender's Block is that there's no real counterplay or decision making involved on part of the enemy. It is very difficult to be able to out position two targets.

Outside of Dodge and Mass Frenzy on the live servers it is the best card and without nerfing it then it will be a non-choice as running it would be a no brainer.

 

You need a major token to run two copies or a legendary shield to run one with a minor token. There are plenty of viable shields other than Defender's Block and Dodge. Many of them with the same token cost aren't as good but there's no problem with that.

In your examples someone willingly positioned themselves in such a way that exposes their backsides. That means they are likely desperate for the vp or are prepared for a strong attack. If they managed to convince you that it was an accident then they deserve to blow you out. The counterplay to Defender's Block is the same as any other block. Draw it out with things you don't care about. You can decide whether or not to lead with a strong attack for back attacks based on your opponent's behavior.

I agree that powerful cards without counterplay are good targets for nerfs but Defender's Block is far from being unstoppable.

 

Agreed. There have been MP games where I cursed how broken Dodge is as I lost multiple attack cards to it. Never felt that way about Defender's Block because it's gone after a single use. Additionally, there can only a max of 6 copies in a team tops, and if you're really running 6 copies of DB, you're using up 3 major tokens and also taking in three weak chops.

So all in all, I don't feel DB is OP right now mainly because of the limited items that have it. Now if we ever get a major token shield with 3 DB or two DB + Pushback Parry or Subtle Parry, then DB may become too good indeed.