November Balance Changes: Priests, Racial Skills, and more!

I do think the removing of default movement cards is a good idea -- although the cards that are replacing them seem strong. Really, the only changes that befuddle me is the buffs to Priests when they are already insane.

The nerfs to Warriors are going to probably hurt them a lot. Especially with WoW being changed to a lot stronger control. I can do a write up on the balance changes later on, but I think the biggest offenders are not being changed and it will keep the R/P/S nature in tact which is really disheartening.

 

Are they insane in low-level campaign? Remember we're just testing right now. As I noted explicitly in the blog posts a few of these changes are under particular scrutiny. We'll see how things shake out and we're planning to iterate at least once.

 

Yes. Priests are the strongest class early game. They have access to 8 and 11 damage attacks with 0 tokens.

 

Only on rare+ items, yeah? A lot of people complain that priests feel useless in the early game. My understanding is their options aren't very even. Looking forward to campaign playtest reports.

 

For what it's worth I think priests are the worst class in low level campaign, and on my initial playthrough my elf priest was easily the worst character in my party for at least the first half of the campaign. Yes there are some rare divine weapons with high damage attacks, but if you don't happen to drop those your warrior will be far better.

 

Ah, I misread it. Edited my post accordingly.

 

I had a very different experience. My priest was an insane damage dealer and far surpassed my warrior in terms of usefulness. The ability to heal is insane in single player due to the fact the AI can easily be kited and bluffed. I do think it is good that some really bad priest things are getting improved / removed, but at the same time some of them just make me confused.

Also, why can't we seriously heavily tweak the binary cards like Imp Nimbus, Res Hide, Smoke Bomb, and Grounding Plate? =/

 

I am currently working through a playthrough of the SP campaign on the test server, but I'm not far enough along to be in a position to write up a report yet. But I do have one very minor bit of feedback on the changes. My younger daughter (she's 8) loves to watch me play Card Hunter and to help me open chests. She had fallen in love with the phrase "obliterating bludgeon". I was a little sad to tell her that it was going to be changed. Happily, she has declared that the phrase "pulverizing bludgeon" is "also fun to say". Whew.

 

Dear players and Staff,

what's the problem with Vampires? Is the problem that some player started acting like Children and saying "Ooh my Vamps are soo OP now, oh they will rule .. soo OP.." bla bla..?!
I actually cannot believe that you pay attention to that.

Is it something else? What? Vamps reached 1650? Vamps reached 1700? Does anyone sees that as a problem?
First -> 2 dwarf warriors + priest reached 1800+, then 2 dodge dwarf warriors + priest almost reached 1800, then 3 dwarf wizards almost reached 1800, then some 2 wiz+ prie were floating around 1700.
Why are Vamps overpowered then?

What, someone said - you need 10 Legendaries for Vamps? Well you dont.. Neoncats build uses 2 Legendary items for Vamp and some for supporting priest (but you need those priest items anyway).

You need time to judge a deck .. ok, some Vamps made a nice ELO jump .. but first -> they were driven by good players .. and good players drove above mentioned decks on 1800. And second and most important,
other players needed time to adapt to Vamp decks, to learn how to play against them etc.. now, after 2+ months things have settled..

If there were few Vamp decks that reached 1800 and no else deck could do that, I would agree that they are OP.. (btw, Vamps without MFs lack power .. and I think nerfing MF is enough drawback for them)
(and come on, lots of players have enough Vamp card.. most of them were in Daily Deal few times).. and if most that Vamps managed

Second -> new players love Vampires .. nerfing those cards would just make them less viable..

I want to say this -> Its now how things work. You should not pay attention to some theoretical whining. As I said time will be the best judge. You could see following things, its basic logic and human psychology:
- Nimble Strike -> oh, that's crap card now, nobody is playing it. - And first.. because of that, most players did stop playing it.. why? Some surely didnt want to be "noobs" and still play NS. Then, BlackSabbath drowe
his 2x NS deck to 1800+ rating.. so what, it's not total crap any more?
- Vamps are OP -> I wont name anyone, but some of the loudest players started playing them and after some nice results (probably due to surprise element and metagame settling) when they started droping in elo, you
could hear things like "oh its OP but Im so unlycky, I cannot believe how unlucky I am... I just failed to draw block/MF/something" .. now they dont play that OP deck any more. And beside MF or Nimbus/Purge carrier, Vampire stuff was another reason to play priests..
- There are some cards .. that annoy players .. like Defender's Block .. and when they get blocked by DB they will always complain that it is so OP .. so, being blocked by Parry is OK .. but being blocked by DB is OP .. ok..
(btw, both of 1800 melee decks were running Rusty Buckler and not Aegis .. what n00bs ). Tripple Wizard players will complain that every deck now runs Sprint Team and Team Run.. and on the same chat, melee players will complain on control stuff.. etc -> so people complain .. they will never stop.. most bad players will complain.. most good players wnill adapt ad find a way .. etc.. I hoped that Blue Manchu knew that..
- Mass Frenzy - ok, as it goes in every melee deck I agree it is one of top cards.. I dont think much players will understand this but ok - you get 3dmg buff but you also dedicate 3rd character to be a almost just a MF carrier .. 7-9 MFs .. quite low on offensive support etc .. instead you could run another warrior with 6 OBs .. and it is possible to win without MF.. prenerf I drow tripple warriors deck (with Arrogant Armor) from 1200 to 1500+ rating.. I now run 2 warriors + wizard on 1600+ rating..
You CAN play without MF .. but most players are affraid to try .. affraid that they will lose too much rating
- I come from long 10 years of high level Magic the Gathering play - and I have been hearing similar things there as well ...
- Flaxative - I actually respect you, and as a Blue Manchu Staff (if I understood) that's really not the way to treat customers (Tragus).. some of us pay for this game.. I'm kind a disappointed at that attitude.. I took you for more diplomatic person.

Etc .. I dont really have time to play on test server to prove more points .. but I hope you wont took some impressions of 5 players playing 30 games for granted..

 

Oh come on ..
1. I tried using priest in my first SP walkthrough .. ok, it worked .. but when I switched to 2 warriors + wizards it was much easier .. I went with that all the way up to Black Plume mountain. Aside MF, Nimbus and maybe some vampire stuff (for low token quests etc) there is no reason to run priest in SP (and probably in MP as well .. maybe for Martyr).

2. Stexe, you actually want to nerf every good card? Leave that Resistant Hide alone .. if you nerf Resistant Hide, you can say goodbye to most 1HP quests.. and if you nerf Nimbus as well, then you can actually remove 1HP quests ..

 

We are listening to all feedback and are also capable of making distinctions and decisions, don't worry. After listening to everyone we try to make the best decision. We won't privilege loudness, don't worry. Part of that means not being held hostage by players who care too much about one card changing one number by one. Anyway, make yourselves heard in whatever way you like but please don't presume to tell us whom to ignore. Thanks!

 

They are extremely strong and leave little room for counterplay (when combined with Talented Healer). That isn't to say that there aren't things that can counter them or that they are the best -- just that they are very dominating and not fun to play against.

And Mass Frenzy is +3 damage to your whole team for 2 turns. That means with a 2 Warrior + 1 Priest comp and drawing an average of 1 attack card while holding 2 for your Warrior and holding 1 and drawing 1 for your Priest you're netting a total of 8 attacks which is a bonus of 24 damage from a single card. Yes, that assumes you'll be able to use every attack and land it, but the same could be said about a single Warrior with 6 OB. Plus, a Priest brings other things like healing, Martyr, and Imp Nimbus.

Nimble Strike is very weak compared to where it was. The reason BlackSabbath had success with it was due to the map rotation and due to the power of Mass Frenzy. Once MF goes down in power it will be more and more reliant on the map rotation.

If you think you can reach top ranking (consistently 1700+) without Mass Frenzy, Defender's Block, Team Run, or Dodge let me know -- I'd be very interested in seeing it. There is probably a 2 Wizard + 1 Priest build that could do it depending on the maps, but I haven't seen it.

1.) It heavily depends on what items you get. Priests have always done the best for me in SP due to abusing AI attacking Imp Nimbus and the ability to turtle and out attrition them.

2.) I don't want to nerf every good card. Just the ones that are dominantly strong and reduce counterplay.

 

No need to be delicate, everybody knows who the drama cat / best player / lowest roller in Cardhuntria is. ^_^


edit: Actually, perhaps this is a useful time to remind everybody that most of what I say is intentionally facetious and melodramatic. Flaxative knows that quite well, so don't think I have any special influence.

 

Twin heals is currently only targeting 1 character.

 

Yay!

Boo! Elves need better handicaps, not worse ones. They already have a huge disadvantage in health, they don't need a card disadvantage on top of it.

Look at the handicaps Dwarves get: 1 item with Trip, 4 with Blind Rage, and 4 with 2x Blind Rage! Humans get 4 items with Slowed, 3 with Vulnerable, 3 with Wimpy, and 1 with Obvious Maneuver.

 

There are other things that seem dominating .. and other that are not "fun to play against".. its not only Vampires. Speaking of dominating - I saw a lot of games .. there are not much Vamps on 1600+ rating..
And if MF is getting nerfet, Vamps will be much less "dominating" .. no need to nerf them even further..

First thats the best case scenario. Second, if MF gets to +2 it will be +16dmg .. and following turn it is +6 .. (in case your priest draws 1 attach each turn).
And one more thing, you need to get things relative not absolute.. you boost your Priest's Stab to 5dmg .. instead you could have 3rd warrior with Bejeweled, or Puppet Master.

MF is great.. I already said that.. we even voted on forum what's the most important melee Item.. but should we nerf every great item? And there are a lot of decks without MF out there..
If someone has time .. he could test that .. 3x warriors vs 2xwar+prie .. I would not like a reason not to play a priest

It doesn't matter where it is "compared to where it was" .. it matters where it is now.. I agree MF+NS stands beside NS power, but other attack items get MF as well .. that kind of evens things out.. anyway thats offtopic

Well I agree you cannot .. why are we nerfing all that then? So only wizards will be on top? Dodge is funny now .. Team Run much less usefull, MF nerfed by 30% ..

1) That's why I said .. on your first SP run .. you have no idea Nimbus exists .. for God's sake I play this game for 7-8 months, was farming for months and I got my 4th Shielding Token 2 months ago .. and bought some in Randis after that..
2) It wont be easy to balance game as this .. if you nerf all the movement, mf, etc .. in that "weaker" metagame something else will be dominantly strong.. and nerfing cards is bad way to do it imho .. people dont like it.. people dont like spending money so their card become useless .. it might be better to increase some other card strengths .. or try to fix things in some expansions..
Ok I agree some cards needed nerf .. like previous NS and Heartripper .. etc

 

Vampires do not rely solely on MF for damage. There are not many Vampires 1600+ because the current map rotation isn't good for them and the best build out there (2 Warriors + 1 MF Priest) stomps on it.

Wizards would not be the "only ones on top" if my suggested changes went through. And I did realize Nimbus existed -- I got an item with it and I read the Wiki. My priest was always one of my strongest characters simply due to the high damage for low token. It wasn't until I got Reaper's Scythe when I finished the game did my Warrior's power level spike.

Nerfing cards is not a bad way to do it. You need to do both nerfs and buffs -- simply buffing things leads to power creep an a huge host of other balance problems.

 

Just to clarify once and for all for everyone talking about vampires: the reversion of Spear of Darkness's damage buff and the alteration of Consuming Spear to Draining Chop were intended to deal with quality issues specific to those cards, not with vampires overall. We're not trying to nerf vampires, and honestly it's not at all clear that we have, given the full suite of changes. I'll close by saying, again, that playtesting will show which strategies have been left by the wayside, and we'll do our best to mitigate any adverse effects of these changes