[Feedback] Upcoming Balance Change MEGATHREAD

I think when the first and foremost complaints were both wwe and vp, you had to shake things up abit. The majority of time I've played has seen this strategy get really repetitive; it's not so simple to tip the top of the pyramid just by making NS step 3. Lots of people anticipated the nerfs to be a bad move, stating another era of 3DC would instead be viable with no counter whatsoever. Devs made a hard choice to nerf cards that would instantly become OP without steps ranging 3+. Sure, we all have ideas of how and what to change on all cards. I've read quite a few of the suggestion pages, and the sheer volume of ideas is unfathomable (ranging from moronic to unfeasable to unreasonable ((some are even good too))). Many of them don't involve the new rule system, and so alot of these old ideas just don't connect as they used to.

That being said, I like the rule changes alot alot. Going down the arc of a tanking warrior would previously find less reward than a frenzy attack warrior, but now it evens the scales a little bit. Reducing the card limit was, in a way, inevitable. Some of you may not remember the days of infinite draw, and it wasn't so fun passing 20 turns in a row... once nerfs happened to altruism and the storm settled *someone* (squidy) (http://forums.cardhunter.com/threads/deckbuilding-contest-cardhuntrias-most-stylish-1-voting-booth.5892/)showed how it was still possible to do a deck just like it. I believe that this rule change is a 'future proof' idea, meaning at some time we may find cards better able to draw under these new conditions, boosting priests from a weakened backsit as some believe them to be now.

 

Alright, I'd like to seriously test the whole encumber thing before working on changes.
It does seem as though, without having a majority of 3-4 space move cards in their deck, a step dwarf is a thing of the past. They would have to rely on Quickness/Rushing Aura, Charges, Energizing Move or Team Run, all of which can only fit so many slots. It doesn't matter that encumber can't stack when Frost Jolt is so common if all of your move cards in your deck are 2 and under. At least, 18 of them are guaranteed not to be more than 2.
Again, let's do some testing. No need to rush into this too fast.

 

I'm not sure about Slide 3, and you may be right here. But wizards are NOT going to be the best class of the game, as the armored elven warriors will still dispatch them (see the Harness changes). Step attacks should really be limited to step 2, since moving longer and attacking in one action is too good. BTW, did you notice the Energizing Move change? Even the dwarves will get move 4 with it. I am not going to say that warriors will be unplayable after the change. They won't be as dominating, right, but that's good for the game AFAIK.

They could play the stone wall before and pummel you with Firestorms. Was it insane or unbalanced? The wizards aren't getting more cards than the warriors, and they still have much less health and much weaker armor.

I agree here, the limit is a bad idea. None of the card-drawing cards were overpowered before, and the limit will make the game pretty dull.

 

The thing is about 10 daily legendaries is the fact that most of them are still useless. Even with 70 legendaries per week you will see only a handful of okay ones and maybe 1 or 2 great ones.
So if you want to be sure you do have to farm gold and have enough ready to get the good ones.
The situation now is that the players who finish a lot of adventures per day have a huge surplus of of gold and this is a good way to shrink those reserves.
Once the gold reserves are gone they will be in the same situation as all others. To have enough gold to buy one or two of those great legendaries per week.

But the most beautiful thing about the new system is the insurance that you will see the same legendary again and you will have the chance again to buy it if you were short on funds the first time.
And if some people feel the need to buy pizza to convert it to gold, even better. If there is no revenue there will be no game.

 

Before you had WW to deal with FS, so Wall of Stone+FS wasn't a big deal at all.

And I don't agree about the elven warriors. I think even elves will be having a very hard time trying to reach wizards. Without more than step 2 attack, an ecnumbered elf can only move 2 with its racial move, and then no more, unless they have some extra move. But even with extra moves, the wizards also have WoW or ITK, the new slide 3 card. And now warriors won't only need the extra moves (that don't do any damage, this is just if they want to get close to a wizard, at least before you got to do some damage or check for blocks with a step attack before they used their WoW or SPR on your warrior), but also they will need to have some fly or teleport moves to pass through Flash Flood. Really? Well, let me know, because I think I'd like to put some attack cards in my warriors too, but I don't know if I will have the space with the things that I need to equip on them just to get near a wizard.

Harness could be a good defense, but I don't think that the armor change will be implemented. But even if it becomes part of the game, wizards now have access to very good penetrating long ranged sparks, and don't forget either that Punishing Bolt works well against Harness. And of course they have a massive armor discard card like Boiling Armor, just in case.

 

Well, we have two very different visions of what this game should be apparently. I like to hunt for the items I want, not for them to be served on a silver platter month after month so that I can purchase them. The game is called Card Hunter for a reason. With the new Randimar's restocking daily, that name would completely lose its meaning.

 

Does anyone else really want to see the art for that card? Seriously though, I'd rather try and get to something three squares away while encumbered than half a map away like with whirlwind.

 

Actually, Stone Feet solves the WoW/ITK/slide problem, adds Armor 1 and cannot be removed by the wizards at all. Add some Energizing Moves, and I'll be pretty sure that two warriors + priest will defeat 3DC. Flash Flood may become a problem, but not on the most maps. Note that a wizard cannot have encumber cards, teleporting cards, Flash Floods, protection cards, moves and enough damaging cards in a single deck, they will have to sacrifice something.

 

But you know that it is frustrating to not obtain some crucial items and have little chance against players who were very very lucky to get one or more of those cards.
And if you are new to the game and are matched against players who grinded for months you have no chance to close the gap. Once players realize that they just quit.

So i guess you are smart enough to understand that a game like this needs a steady stream of new players and more importantly players who stay. And to be frank, if it means that CH loses players who fear that with the new system the competition gets harder at the top because more players can play better decks at higher ranks, i say farewell. Because the amount of new players who now see a chance to compete will be a much higher.

 

Jacques last 3 posts have said exactly what I wanted to say. Especially the one about wizards on the previous page.
Wizards will dominate. Punishing bolt will murder players with harnesses.
The firestorm change is necessary as a result of the changes to whirlwind and step attack. There's no way to reliably get across the map on turn 1 or 2 any more.

 

Hey, tell me about it! Do you know hoy many months I farmed for a VP? Almost a year actually. And I didn't get a single one. But that didn't stop me from getting to 1800 Elo. And that is because no item, even the best one (VP) is an auto-win. As I have said in previous posts, the really important thing is to adapt to what you have and build according to that, it's also part of the fun. You want to play with warriors but don't have NS? Then fill them with Dancing Cuts. That is why there are great commons and uncommons, to let new players be competitive too. Bejeweled Shortsword is the perfect example of this. If new players can't compete at the top is because they are still inexperienced, not because of the items.

And I really wish the competition gets harder, harder means more fun. But with the suggested Randimar's System, what would happen is that everyone will be playing the same 2 or 3 builds, it would kill variance, and that isn't good at all.

 

New players will not face veterans with high ratings. If a new player has enough gold to buy the legendarys then they probably completed the campaign at which point I would no longer consider them new. I doubt they would bust out a credit card with the low renown price mark ups. They will certainly be at a disadvantage but we all had to build our collections from scratch.

Personally, I'm not afraid of an even playing field. Shooting fish in a barrel is no fun. However, there are two problems that go with everyone having the best items. The variety of decks will greatly diminish. There will eventually be a best build as the last pvp season proved and the only thing that kept it in check was item availability. More importantly, what's the point of playing to get items when you already have the best ones? This is even more of a problem for people that exclusively play single player to collect items. If you know you will see all the legendary items in the shop within a few months the drive to get them vanishes. Taking away the item collection aspect of the game removes a lot of the fun out of it.

 

This is very acurate. It would completely disrupt the pace of the game, specially at SP.

Flesh Flood would be an awesome card

 

If wizards will dominate due to Punishing Bolt, then the bolt should be nerfed, not Firestorm. The Firestorm change is NOT necessary, since you don't have to get across the map on turn 1 or 2. You just have to get better armor/healing than a Firestorm team, which isn't very difficult for the warriors, especially with the harness changes. Just prohibit Punishing Bolt and Resistant Hide, and the warriors would have pretty good chances vs. Firestorm, so these cards should be changed instead. Or maybe warriors should get anti-fire armor too. Why destroying a good card and 28 items with it?

 

Since you mentioned your high rating, tell me please the incredible variance of decks in the high rankings.
And while you are at it, tell me how the fluctuation is? The same handful of players who play the high rank cheese are the same as a few months ago.

I understand your problem but do you understand the importance that new players get the chance to compete at the top?
And the only way to make that happen is the ability to distribute better items a lot faster.

 

And what happens after this new player hypothetically was able to acquire top tier items? They get crushed by experienced players who know the ins and outs of the game. I think that is a lot more demoralizing then slowly gaining experience and building your collection up.

 

I wouldn't glorify "the top" that much, it never mattered where i went eye to eye with my opponent, be it the 900 range. 1300 or 1600. All the top meant for me was compromising my play towards things i don't find very interesting.
Also, there's never a sudden difficulty wall or getting instantaneously crushed out of nowhere, match making ensures.
The new Randimar model is excessive, but i can get the notion that new players should be enabled to catch up.

 

Very good point imo.

I do get what your saying but I still think it is an inaccurate conclusion. Let me put it this way. If the server was wiped and we all started with brand new accounts then yes, absolutely, the game would initially include a pay-to-win aspect. However, the fact that players have had a year or so to build up their collections already negates it completely. All that it does now is allow paying players to fast-track their progression to catch up!

I can definitely understand this and I'm not trying to rub salt into the wound, I just feel that it is important to distinguish the good ftp models from the bad. In the best ftp models, non-paying customers have access to most if not all of the content the game has to offer and the way the company makes money is to offer shortcuts (and cosmetic changes) that get paying customers who may not have the same amount of time an opportunity to stay competitive. That is what this is from my perspective, a non-restricting, realistic ftp model and not a money grab by any means.

Honestly, when I start playing again I don't plan on buying any items with pizza (I will buy the skins though). That is because I enjoy the card hunt and building my collection over time. The fact that someone else will be able to fast-track their collection doesn't change that at all as there is already a bunch of people that have vast collections already.

 

The problem isn't that new players will catch up. What worries me is established players will be able to advance at the same or more likely an even greater pace. New players may be able to get to a point where we are at now, but we will be even farther ahead due to our existing collections and saved up gold. When people get to the point where their collection is essentially complete the game fundamentally changes.

 

You may be farther in the terms of item quantity, but not in the term of competitiveness. You will have 1000 good decks, they will have just one - but that one may be enough to win

Do you want the complete collection of items? If you do, are you going to pay insane amounts of money or farm all the day for that? I don't need a full collection, I just need the items to test my crazy decks. And when I will get the items, I will test the crazy decks and invent the new ones