[BALANCE] Balance Suggestion List (January 2014)

Yup, testing server would be more appealing if we had all items and a lot of pizza there (to test pizza leagues for example or else).

Otherwise, something I wonder. What if when someone plays a card that affects all ennemies (Whirlwind Enemies, Elvish Insight, Brainhook...) the entire effect is canceled if a single block card triggers? This can be a good way to nerf wwe imho and someone can't lose 3 blocks over a single opponant card caus team mates wouldn't have to roll their blocks too, first block having killed the whole process. Cards that target all (Firestorm, Whirlwind...) can remain as is caus it affects both players.

 

Great idea, Squid!

 

I believe PayPal (even Sandbox) is restricted in some countries. Either way, a lot of people are hesitant to use it because it looks like it could charge money and still requires signing up.

By "unlock everything" I mean give them X number of every single item where X is the max you could possible need (9 of each weapon, 6 of each divine weapon, 3 of each shield, etc).

 

That could be a good thing to test. Although I'd say it should block the whole thing even for Firestorm and Whirlwind. I abuse WW just as much as I abuse WWE. =)

 

We all love to FS in the mines ^^'

 

Yeah, it would fundamentally change FS to be extremely risky in single player. None of my proposed changes have really been balanced around SP though. Although I'd actually be for reducing the power of FS in SP only because it is so dominatingly strong for farming.

 

Aha. Good to know about PayPal. That would be a problem. I wonder if people under PayPal blockout could use a proxy and an existing sandbox account to buy pizza? If so, posting a generic account and a bit about proxy extensions for some of the browsers would be useful. We need someone in a blocked country to test it.
Aha again. Simply assigning a full load-out would save a lot of time and effort.

 

If "many or most players are only interested in the campaign", I suspect balancing MP to the detriment of SP will be a non-starter with BM. I still maintain that any balance changes should be balanced for both sides, which is a reason I'd like to see a group of the top rated players come to a concensus instead of using one player's theories and opinions, regardless of who that player is. I believe it's possible to get a better balance that works with both sides, but will require significantly more effort than balancing only one.
FS farming is quick rather than strong, and some adventures are best avoided. Unless by "dominatingly strong" you mean it's fast and effective, in which case it is on the right maps.

 

It is "dominatingly strong" on every map if you run Boiling Armor and Inspiring Presence / Impenetrable Nimbus. There's only like 2 or 3 that I haven't been able to get it to work well on like Black Plume Mountain.

Yes, most people are only interested in SP which is probably why Jon has been hesitant to nerf things. Nearly all of my suggestions don't really mess with SP except for FS, Res Hide, and Imp Nimbus. Everything else shouldn't really change how SP is played.

Oh, and by the way, I do play SP heavily as well. Although mainly just for farming or creating new characters to try new farming builds. Just because I focus on MP balance doesn't really mean I don't know SP balance as well. :-P

 

Okay, I think I see what you're saying. My focus in farming is speed. Many maps I can do faster and more reliably with 2 war/priest. I don't consider FS dominatingly strong if it takes a long time. Most builds in general are doable on most SP maps.

I think there are a few more that will affect SP significantly. As long as the changes are reasonable and not detrimental, I hope they'll go through.

I figured you farmed heavily when I saw your collection badge in neoncat's thread. Few MP-only players build a stash like that. You might, though, which may explain some of your positions. You are one of the best CH players. The majority of players will be casual rather than hardcore, and will get shredded by maps you wouldn't have trouble with. Alienating your main customer base is not a good way to stay in business, and I hope BM stays in business for a long time.

 

Nerfing a couple rare cards (and whirlwind...) Won't affect sp balance in my opinion. I completed the entire campaign without a single firestorm or nimble strike or short perplexing ray... And i never used my resistant hides or whirlwinds. Sure it would affect speed farming, something which I think is probably done by a tiny minority, but it wouldn't really affect the difficulty if modules for players who are just going for completion.

 

I do farm a bit but usually right before bed while listening to a podcast or something -- I find it relaxing. There are people who play a ton of MP and have similar collections; especially those who go for the purple chest each day and play a lot of leagues.

As for not alienating your main customer, I completely agree. That's why in my design proposal to Jon I also suggested that single player be made easier and more forgiving. Having binary cards like Only Bones is really difficult to overcome unless you know before hand. I'd reduce the difficulty of the game by a bit for the person's first play through of the map and then increase it to current difficult for the rest. That would keep farming at about the same level, but also make more people stay with the game and not quit due to frustration (which seems to be a huge factor in losing people).

It would make the Challenges impossibly difficult if they changed Imp Nimbus and/or Res Hide. Not that I'd be against the change and difficulty increase for those who finish the campaign.

 

Depends on how they change them. Your suggestions would definitely make those quests impossibly difficult, but there might be nerfs to those cards that help PvP without affecting PvE viability.

Also, there's a card in the game already that is different in PvP and PvE—Obvious Maneuver—so I'm not sure why the doors are assumed to be closed to making some cards function slightly differently in the two environments.

 

I find it very disappointing that the devs have failed to address all these balance issues so far into the release. Don't they want their game to be successful? Ok, the game isn't a flop, but the long term MP playability really suffers - something that surely have taken it's toll on the number of active players.

 

They don't have a full time designer on staff or someone who is a top ranked player on staff either. Games like League of Legends and StarCraft have a team of people who do balancing... usually co-run with a lot of top players or input from top players. This game doesn't really have that and can't really support it.

Granted, I'm sure Jon could implement some of the changes I suggested and test it out, but he has been hestitant to do so due to the fact people might feel their possessions are de-valued randomly. I think it is more healthy for the game and wouldn't really kill it if NS got nerfed and my VP was slightly weaker due to it. But that's just my own opinion.

 

SC and League are completely different games, though. They were built from the ground up to be tournament-level competitive games. I get the sense that CH was not (and I say "sense that" since I don't know any of the devs, and wasn't around in Beta). And since there isn't a dedicated competitive "scene" for CH (i.e. MadCatz isn't going to hold a Card Hunter tournament live-streamed around the world anytime soon), I don't think there is an imperative for said top-ranked players to be on staff for balance issues.

Really, the most that is at stake in a CH tournament are forum titles and skins for characters. SC and League have tournaments where players can earn thousands of dollars in prizes. I don't think you can really make a comparison.

That said, I do wish they paid a bit more attention to balance issues.

 

League of Legends was once a game that was never seen as a tournament-level competitive game. They changed that though. I was one of the first LoL players (user 1018) and it had just as many problems that this game does for balance issues (if not more). Ask any of the early beta players about Twisted Fate or Zilean... I could solo entire teams with Zilean back in the day. But look at LoL now! I did a lot of balance analysis for LoL back in the day as well...

As for the lack of being seen as a tournament-level competitive game... it was the same with Magic: The Gathering. Richard Garfield never thought MtG would be played super competitively and that's why he included so many OP cards in the base sets. He assumed it would be cool for people to get one of them to make their deck unique -- he just never thought people would buy boxes and boxes to make a deck with the best of everything. That is very similar to how it happened here (and a bit coincidental that he also contributed to the design of Card Hunter).

Heck, Card Hunter has the basic workings of being more competitive than Hearthstone, which is a game with a large competitive scene, despite it having even more randomness than Card Hunter. Granted, it has the backings of a multi-billion dollar company behind it... but that doesn't mean you can't start following similar principles in order to work towards a lofty goal.

 

I have an idea what WWs could do: x range, burst 2 (so affects a 5x5 area at most). Randomize characters locations in that 5x5 area.
x = 10 maybe? And by randomization I mean that they will also land in that 5x5 area. It could possibly burst through blocked terrain though.
WWE would do that only for enemy chars and WW for all chars.
Whatcha think? They would usually be worse than WoW that way as they should.

 

Would probably still be OP. Neat idea though and it might be a good thing to test out.

 

Idk, doesn't sound too OP. Maybe range 8 or even 6 (still 8 with burst 2) would be better. And it would be very realistic: a wizards summons a whirlwind to a location he can see (requires LoS). Also, the chance that chars won't move at all or only move for 1 square are greatly increased.
Anyway I'd like to see WWs nerfed enough so that Rod of Winds could still have 3 of them for a minor token.