Challenge - The Nudie Run

I do like this challenge, and I think I'll try it out, but I'm probably going to do so with the variation where you're allowed to go through each of the modules once (and only once) but still be required to do one for each level instead of only being allowed one per level. I think the loot pool is a little too small as it is (especially with treasure drops added in) and makes the skill challenge a little too luck based rather than having players make forward thinking decisions about what equipment they'll need for the future modules, along with weighing the risk/reward of taking on a challenging module for a chance at a bigger pool of equipment.

Considering how lethal some of the modules are, it might even be harder if you play A Nudie Run with the requirement of beating all of the modules and ending with the dragon.

 

My proposed rules for the current Nudie Run, mainly a couple rules added to allow for limited shop usage. Key rules in annoying BOLD so as to draw your attention to them.

This is an honor system, ladies and gentlemen, let's keep it classy.

1) Start with 3 max level characters, remove all items from them prior to starting.
2) Complete ONE and ONLY ONE adventure at each level, STARTING at LVL 1. You choose which adventure you want to do and are allowed 3 RETRIES PER ADVENTURE. Retries of the first board do count against you, so don't rely on the interface to tell you you're done with the adventure.
3) You may ONLY equip items you find in the treasure chests. NO CLUB ITEMS ALLOWED.
4) KEEP a running list of the items you have found, including treasure, for each run. If you sell these items you cross them off of your list.
5) Every 4 levels you may visit a store to purchase and equip up to 2 items. You may ONLY purchase 2 items, no more. You are ONLY allowed to visit the specified shop once, and only at the specified time during your run. You may ONLY use gold that you have earned by selling items from this run.
- After beating LVL 4, you may visit The Armory.
- After beating LVL 8, you may visit Kyburz Market.
- After beating LVL 12, you may visit The Goblin Bazaar.
- After beating LVL 16 you may visit Randimar's Rarities.


* Notes
- I may actually prefer people start with LVL 1 characters, but am waiting for more testing feedback on this rule. Plus it adds cost to starting a run for many people, so I'll keep it simple for now.
- No treasure club items to keep it fair. Only one adventure at each level to keep things quick, and to make you choose which adventures to try.
- Keeping a list allows you to maintain a separate inventory. It's not perfect but it helps.
- Adding the stores keeps treasure interesting, and helps give you a chance at higher levels. The item and visiting limits are an attempt to keep within the spirit of a Rogue-like. Unfortunately you can't try to kill the shop keepers (yet).

Feedback and questions are appreciated.

edit log:

Changed to 3 retries as that's what the game tracks.
Lowered the items you can purchase from 3 to 2 to increase the difficulty.

 

Why only 2 retries per adventure?
Shopping would make it considerably easier, even with the limitations, provided the things you need are in stock that day.
Edit: Heh. Randimar, you're still safe. For now.

Edit 2: My group made it through Goblins in the Woods, but died in Tvericus' Mausoleum. Damn you Three Mausketeers!

 

Well you normally only get 2 retries, except for on the first level anyway. Honestly, for my tastes I'd probably say no retries at all, but I'm very used to rogue-like games that use perma-death. This seems popular on the thread and allows for some replays in case of a bad draw, so consider it a compromise.

Offering shopping is critical to me. Treasure otherwise is useless, which also makes levels like the Kobolds auto avoids. I find both of those things to be annoying, as well as missed opportunities. Shopping also allows for a small amount of flexibility around random drops, but you're still mostly stuck relying on what you can find. 3 common/uncommon items isn't that big of a difference based on my testing. The availability of uncommons is still pretty limited. I don't think it's all that much help, but try it and see for yourself. In a perfect world I'd want shops that stock a lot less than the current ones, but I'm just trying to mock up some rules that can work with the existing pieces (this is why I limit shopping trips to 3 items).

The early levels (1-10) were already pretty easy in my view so making them a bit easier is a wash to me. But it does provide a bit of help for later levels (11+) when the SP adventures start throwing things like Ogres and Wyverns at you. Based on my attempts so far, this mode is a cakewalk until it suddenly becomes suicidal. I'd prefer more of a ramp up in difficulty, but I can't alter the SP campaign so I'm stuck focusing on small boosts to the later levels. You're still limited to finding rare cards on found items (until lvl 16 at least but even then you're strongly limited by your funds), and you will only be able to buy 1 of an item anyway, plus the stores only reliably stock common items. I doubt you'll be able to build much of a reliable strategy or deck off of the stores, but I'm not positive of that.

If someone can use this to easily/repeatedly take down the Dragon than clearly it's too easy. I don't think shopping for a few items will add up to that much of a difference, but that's just a guess on my part. Please, prove me wrong.

 

I think one of the things that makes this challenging is that the campaign asks you to adopt different strategies and builds for different levels. And that's really hard to do when you permanently lose access to situational items upon unequip.

 

I like it. Just so I'm entirely clear: now that we're keeping a list, is it acceptable to equip items from that list that were added to the collection after dropping in a chest earlier in the run? Or, as in Farbs' original rules, can they still only be equipped immediately after they drop, such that the only acceptable use for them later within the run is to sell them during our allotted shop visits? I'm guessing that it's the former but want to make sure I'm not cheating.

 

In normal SP we get 3 retries without buying any. As a rule, if you can't make it in 2, you won't make it in 3. Also, I've never actually seen a cakewalk, but Garnet with poor gear and empty slots was pretty rough on my crew. No retries, but my human went down twice. I guess YMMV.
I think access to shops at low levels would be useful in filling equipment voids. The top 2 could help bolster what you've found along the way.
I don't foresee anyone taking down the dragon easily and repeatedly with this setup.

 

Going on with "Oberon rules", like them... we'll see! On a side note, the guy I'm equipping most and best is the mage (going 1/1/1), which, it seems, won't last long, mmm...

 

Yes that is the idea, you can move things around your "list" inventory as needed. I think Farbs initial rules are as much for ease of use, because we can't seperate out the inventory. I like this mode enough I'm willing to track it, and I think it offers enough of an improvement that it's worth it. As Flaxitive mentioned this also helps alter your builds for specific boards, or to adapt to a new skill you may find later in the game. It's a pain to keep this list, but I don't feel it goes against the spirit of this mode.

Really? Fair enough, I'll change that to 3 retries than. I thought it was 2.

Access to shops does help, I can't deny that, and there are clearly tactics to it. (certain items make better buys because they maintain value later in the game, or you can try to fill empty spots) But In my current run through the Compass of Xorr was very close, as was the sinister wood. I'm coming up to the lvl 11-12 adventures and I feel I'll have more of a shot, but it's still going to be very hard. Please keep giving feedback, I'm not confident this method is the best option, just trying it out.

Thanks !

Oddly, this mode really makes you compare relative value. I pulled a Yolop's Talisman in this run, but decided that empty pockets was superior for my needs.

 

I think you mean, empty pockets + 20 gold

 

So. Just finished my first run. Here are the rules I used.

1) Party starts out with no equipment, but are maximum level for each module.
2) Player may do every module once and only once, but must select one module for each level up to 17.
3) You are allowed the two retries for each module you attempt.
4) No shops.
5) Once an item enters your inventory, it is gone for good.
6) No club reward items are allowed.

The Party

Zoltan: Human Warrior
Lily: Human Warrior
Terra: Human Priest

Level 1: Kobold Encampment

This was an obvious pick as it allows you to get the Woodsman's Axe for one of the warriors. Naturally, with three people it was an easy ride.

Level 2: Wizard's Workshop

The changes in balance to the Demonic Revenge show just how awful some of the early Priest items are now, making a lot of these early Divine Items useless. Fortunately my warrior managed to pick up a Trog Skin Jacket, the only item I could use out of all of them, since the game loved to shower me with Wizard items.

Level 2: Caverns of the Trogledytes

Dull Buckler and Bulky Club for my warriors. Nothing else of note and not particularly difficult.

Level 3: Lair of the Trog Wizards

Priest walked away with a Cleansing Hide which I decided to use despite the general uselessness of Cleansing Ground. Pain Hat was received but discarded due to terrible Demonic Revenge.

Level 3: Highway Robbery

Got lucky and the goblins got barely any blocks at all. Got a Chipped Shield for Lily and Cloth Boots for all of my party members now. Zoltan got Cover Shield in preparation for the Ruby Demon Portal and Terra got a Witchdoctor's Axe.

Level 4: Ruby Demon Portal

Despite a well timed fireball nearly wrecking my entire party, my team managed to pull off a victory and Terra was rewarded with the first good fortune of this game with a True Strike Spear. Looking forward to using it in Shieldhaven.

Level 4: Dungeon of the Lizard Priest

And that true strike spear quickly paid off in this level with Terra getting most of the kills. Managed to pick up Croc Skin Boots and Zoltan received Untrained Slicing. Lily finally managed to get some armor after the lizard priest fell and is now equipped with Reinforced Hide Armor.

Level 5: Rescue From Shieldhaven Prison

Always nice to see someone pull an Obvious Manuver and reveal three Parry cards in their hand. Lily swapped out her armor for Old Padded Mail and I got my THIRD RARE wizard staff. Lily swapped out her Cloth Boots for Rusted Iron Boots on the dog boy level and Terra picked out Poisoned Relic and Glimmer Boots once the damsel was rescued.

Level 5: Slubgut's Sanctum

I really hate slimes in this mode. Especially since I have two weapons between both warriors. Fortunately Lily got a Grey Rapier after this fight so she could stab people now. My first party death was to Slub-Gut himself but I pulled through the second time and managed to get yet another rare wizard drop since this game hates warriors.

Level 6: The Defense of Woodholme

With so many bludgeons and bashes, this was an obvious choice. Zoltan managed to pick up a Dueler's Buckler and Lily now has Spiked Leather Boots. Party got incredibly lucky on the chapel as none of the skeletons drew Only Bones giving Zoltan a Welk's Helm. The last battle was a tanking effort and netted me the Long Axe of Retribution for Terra, Zoltan got Old Adze, and Lily was now trained in Sharp Bashing. Just two slots away from a full equip.

Level 6: Diamonds of the Kobolds

Easy battles. No equipment received or exchanged.

Level 6: The White Star

My non-existent wizard got an Epic Level staff and Terra got a Coward's Shield.

Level 7: Beneath the Frozen Earth

Things start to get tricky here and the battles were not easy to say the least. Fortunately my non-existent wizard got two more rare arcane items...

Level 7: Forest of Souls

Lily upgraded to Iron Shield and I'm starting to notice how ineffective these warriors are now that more armor is coming into play. Zoltan got a set of Plate Mail in the second level, and after five minutes of running around, Terra killed the final enemy in the third level and received Nimble Chain Boots.

Level 8: Compass of Xorr

Another party wipe in the first level, but the second time went much better. Lily picked up Apprentice Gouging and Terra got Oak Roots and finally my warrior got some love with Oversized Pick. A dangerous choice, but it wasn't one I could refuse given the alternatives for Zoltan. Terra was also given Initiate's Glaive and Lily got Gorilla Skin Mask, leaving a pair of Nacrat Boots for Zoltan.

Level 8: Stafford's Treasure

This level is a bit risky to put it mildly, especially the last level. Saw a Parrying Buckler behind the club membership wall. F*ck me. Terra picked up Patched Dashing Boots and I nearly got wiped three times on the last level, but thankfully Stafford is content to sit in the corner of his vault and get stabbed to death.

Level 9: Gladiatorial Arena Qualifiers

Finally got my first human skill Novice Tactics for Zoltan once the elves died to sharp pointy things along with Monkey Skin Mask, and the zombie hulk died to friendly fire in the next map, giving Zoltan some Hardened Hide Armor.

Level 10: The Sinister Wood

Decided to skip the cockroaches for this run and go for trees instead as I have no way to get around armor. The trees were annoying and strong, but we managed to get through and Terra walked away with Unholy Charm. Lily got Flexible Command soon after, and Zoltan picked up Trained Slicing. Of note, I still have not gotten a sixth warrior weapon for Lily as of yet.

Level 11: Goblins in the Woods

It's at this point that the difficulty of the game really starts to ramp up, especially with the introduction of Goblin Shredders. Fortunately the first level is a cakewalk and Terra picked up Inspirational Mail. The second level was the goblin shredder level, but fortunately they didn't manage to land a single attack. The third level with the goblin berserkers was also a pain, but it finally gave Lily her third weapon, Puncturing Dagger. Thanks to the fourth level minions blocking the hulk, he died to stabs and gave Lily Trained Impaling.

I now face a difficult choice. Skeletons in the Tomb of Tvericus, Shredders in Tree Forts of the Goblin King, or a metric f*ckton of lizardmen in the temple of scales. Ultimately I decided on...

Level 12: Tomb of Tvericus

Zoltan replaced his Woodsman's Axe for a Weighted Shortsword, and thanks to the skeletons in the second level choosing Solid Mail over Only Bones, I managed to scrap by (and get another rare wizard item). Thankfully, the stars aligned for the final level and Tvericus didn't draw his armor, nor did any of the skeletons and Terra picked up a Martyr's Medallion from the pile of bones.

Level 13: Shrine of the Astral Guardians

Finally, more luck for my put upon warriors with Thornhill Sword which goes to Lily and after blocking four shock spells in a row at four hit points, she gets Ogre Hide Armor, ditching Flexible Command. The third level started badly, but we pulled through and Terra walked away with Wooden Shield.

Level 14: Return to the Astral Shrine

I really don't like this level, but the alternative was Lord Batford's Mannor, which would be a slaughterhouse for my heroes to put it mildly. Unfortunately the first level went badly, with two losses due to multiple Cave Ins, Acid Attacks, and the refusal of the pieces to move from their starting positions. Third battle I finally got lucky, but was fearful of the next one, knowing I'd have to split my party for any chance at victory.

Unfortunately my team wasn't up to the challenge, and a drought of attack cards from both warriors soon saw their third and final defeat in the Astral Shrine.

On a side note, I did try this level two more times with my build, and found that they were ill suited to this level from the start, as they lost both other times.

Final Party

Zoltan: Human Warrior

Weapons:
Old Adze
Weighted Shortsword
Oversized Pick

Helm: Monkey Skin Mask
Shield: Dueler's Buckler
Armor: Hardened Hide Armor
Boots: Nacrat Boots
Human Skill: Novice Tactics
Martial Skill: Trained Slicing

Lily: Human Warrior

Weapons:
Grey Rapier
Puncturing Dagger
Thornhill Sword

Helm: Gorilla Skin Mask
Shield: Iron Shield
Armor: Ogre Hide Armor
Boots: Nimble Chain Boots
Human Skill: Unskilled Human
Martial Skill: Trained Impaling

Terra: Human Priest

Divine Weapons:
Initiate's Glaive
True Strike Spear

Divine Items:
Poisoned Relic
Martyr's Medallion
Unholy Charm

Shield: Wooden Shield
Divine Armor: Inspirational Mail
Boots: Patched Dashing Boots
Human Skill: Unskilled Human
Divine Skill: Novice Devotion

I'll be saving my thoughts for this mode in general with my next post.

 

Got to 4th level, going to think about my shop visit... Many items were discarded because worse than bare slot, and the wavering faith seems QUITE good. Have fun and goodnight.

 

Let me first say that I actually really enjoyed this mode overall. I've gotten so good and efficient and running through the majority of these modules that except when things went really wrong, I rarely felt any tension from these fights at all. I'd almost forgotten what close scrapes and near misses were like, and I was definitely excited to be opening loot chests again and be eager to see the contents rather than expecting to just throw it all into the 'sell' pile. This really came home in particular when I got excited over getting a Thornhill Sword of all things. I've got another three of those sitting in my inventory right now and yet I was still excited to get this particular one. That said, there are a few things about this game that make the proposed rules rather impossible.

First, I think it's going to be a necessity to be able to access all of the items you get during the current run. I didn't really have a problem with this since I sold off nearly all of my uncommon and common items a long time ago so I have a relatively empty inventory, but especially in the later levels when so much of the game relies upon you building specific decks to counter monsters such as slimes and skeletons, getting through on those levels with what you happen to have on you becomes near impossible. This becomes even more impossible when you have to start juggling around power tokens as well.

I'm kinda hoping that sometime in the future they'll give us a separate storage space for just such things, or maybe even a tab in the inventory sorting menu for 'flagged' items or something like that to make this challenge a bit easier to organize.

Second, considering the sheer mass of Arcane Items in this game, the unfortunate reality is that this mode is going to lean heavily towards the wizards, making almost any party composition that doesn't include a wizard at a severe disadvantage. Therefore, I think being able to run each module once and only once is a better alternative as opposed to only getting one module per level to allow for a larger pool of loot. As you can see, even though I was taking advantage of most of the modules in this run, I was still only getting about one usable item per module.

Third, unless you're running in the mode of doing each module at each level, completing this challenge with a level 1 pure party is going to be near impossible given the rules, as you'll be severely under leveled for many of the future modules when the game starts to spike in difficulty.

Again, I found this challenge to be pretty enjoyable. I'll be running it again with a different party next time to see if I can get a better result.

 

You'll never be more than 2 levels below the module, because once you get that far behind, you'll level up with every module you complete. But that's enough to stop you from using any major tokens until the very end.

I've been thinking of trying this on the test server, where I can make a new account giving me a blank inventory and all the guaranteed drops.

 

So taking my first shot at it starting last night using the originally proposed rules (no shops, only one adventure per level, don't get to switch back to items that went into inventory, no club membership etc.) and no treasure hunts. I concur that it might be nigh impossible to make it through Lvl 17 with these rules but I think I like that part. It means there's some bragging rights to how far you get in addition to the new challenge. Last night I ran through the first six levels before going to bed and will pick up where I left off tonight, here's the progress so far:

I'm running Dwarf Warrior, Human Priest, Dwarf Wizard. I strongly considered running two wiz because I figured at higher levels keeping my distance might be the only way to survive, however I was afraid I'd have to throw away too many items if I didn't run 1/1/1. At this point I'm regretting the decision because I've had a lot of staffs and arcane items drop so far, but that could change quickly.

Went where I thought I could get the most loot:

Lvl 1 - White Skull Canyon

Lvl 2 - The Wizard's Workshop

Had the Staff Of The Misanthrope fall for me! At this point using Flash Of Pain like a poor man's firestorm. It made some later quests move extremely easy.

Lvl 3 - Highway Robbery

No notable items, but did have 3 treasures fall

Lvl 4 - Ruby Demon Portal

2 more treasures.

Lvl 5 - Rescue from Sheildhaven Prison - This is where it got really good!

After the second quest had Staff Of The Inferno and Pixie Hide Cloak fall at the same time! Was doubly happy, one to get firestorm and resistant hide, two because I don't have Inferno in my normal inventory! Feeling really good at this point even though the two staff have made me ditch all the ho-hum staffs I'm getting. Ironically only drew one FS in all the remaining stages I played last night.

Lvl 6 - The White Star

6 Treasures - Not too surprising.

Will update with progress later.

 

Congrats on the staves! My new attempt mirrors the party you're using, and also happens to be my original CH party.

 

Hehe, what a difference a couple of items makes. So I just beat the dragon playing my version. It may be a bit easy, let me know how others do.

I almost lost on quite a few levels. Tvericus was quite hard, with the armored skeletons being very tough to beat. I than hit High Mountain Pass which was equally difficult. Return to the Astral Shrine wasn't too bad. Beating the last level of Riddle of the Gnome Lords took a couple of tries. I beat the Temple of Terror without many problems. And due to the Frost and Nimbus items I'd picked up the dragon wasn't too bad, I lost once to the ogre priest board.

I posted my party below.

Careful selection from the stores adds up. The best commons are pretty easy to spot, and I was still using most of them at the end.

- I had a running total of 400 plus gold by the end, 200 of that was from an epic treasure so I didn't spend that as I figured it was due to luck.
- I ended up buying the blocking mace, acrobat's blade, and dueler's buckler for my warrior. Everything else came from drops, but that still made for a passable warrior.
- For my mage I purchased the burning bangle, blister stone and charged opal. I got lucky and pulled the winter staff from lvl 16, and the frosty staff was in randimars.
- For my priest I'd bought the silver healing ring, and then the shielding token from randimar's.


Ruffurbar
Level 19 Dwarf Priest

Virescent Spear
Mendicant's Spear
Savage Plates
Buckler Of Protection
Off-balance Boots
Shielding Token
Silver Healing Ring
Novice's Healing Ring
Untrained Ferocity
Trained Devotion
​

1 x Consuming Touch
1 x Enervating Touch
3 x Puncturing Stab
1 x Stab
1 x Wild Run
2 x Potent Stab
1 x Charge
2 x Healing Pulse
1 x Misguided Heal
1 x Greater Heal
1 x Boosted Heal
2 x Limited Heal
1 x Jarring Block
1 x Thickened Mail
1 x Altruism
1 x Lifesaving Block
1 x Help The Weak
2 x Heal
1 x Weak Block
1 x Flimsy Block
1 x Defender's Block
1 x Savage Curse
1 x Mass Frenzy
1 x Impaling Stab
3 x Impenetrable Nimbus
1 x Bad Medicine
2 x Run
​

Benedict
Level 17 Human Warrior

Acrobat's Blade
Blocking Mace
Glimmering Sword
Rusty Chainmail
Dueler's Buckler
Defensive Helm
Heavy Dashing Boots
Novice Tactics
Untrained Impaling
​

2 x Dash
1 x Block
3 x Parry
1 x Reliable Mail
2 x Stab
1 x Forward Thinking
1 x Fumble
2 x Trained Bludgeon
1 x Mighty Bludgeon
2 x Lunging Strike
1 x Powerful Bludgeon
1 x Walk
2 x Impaler
1 x Weak Strike
1 x Ouch!
2 x Unreliable Block
2 x Hardy Mail
2 x Mail
1 x Shuffle
3 x Mighty Hack
1 x Solid Mail
1 x Strong Bash
1 x Wimpy
1 x Able Stab
​

Debwyr
Level 19 Dwarf Wizard

Frosty Staff
Staff Of Winter
Charged Opal
Blister Stone
Charged Opal
Burning Bangle
Hotblast Robe
Hidebound Boots
Unskilled Dwarf
Superb Sparking
​

7 x Hot Spot
2 x Cone Of Cold
2 x Wall Of Fire
6 x Frost Jolt
1 x Mighty Spark
2 x Walk
1 x Hover
1 x Flimsy Block
2 x Chilling Rime
1 x Ember Spray
2 x Acid Blast
2 x Cold Snap
1 x Fire Spray
1 x Hardy Mail
1 x Cloth Armor
1 x Shuffle
1 x Devastating Spark
1 x Reliable Hide Armor
1 x Spark Inductor
​

 

Well since the server's down for a few, might as well update my progress:

Lvl 7 - Beneath the Frozen Earth

The Trogs gave me some problems, but I got through. Upgraded when Imp-proof Robes dropped so I didn't have to deal with Superstitious on the Pixie Hide.

Lvl 8 - Compass of Xorr

Getting hard to decide where to put power token items since if I want to move the token elsewhere later I'll essentially have to go back to no item on the slot I'm moving it from (since at some point I won't get new items for that slot that do not use tokens).

Lvl 9 - Gladiatorial Arena, Quarters

I was worried about the all elf first stage, shouldn't have been, barely took 3 turns to take them down. However the 2nd stage was my first (and 2nd) replay use. Spawned my Wiz pinned against the wall by the Goblin Hulk - ugh. On the replay got pinned in an awkward crossfire and it was close... but lost again! Down to the final replay: Lost my Warrior on the first turn to the Hulk but had better draws with my Wiz and was able to take the Hulk out without losing any more. The Dwarf and my priest basically fought to the death of each other and then it was playing ring around the lake with the Festering Zombies and my wiz, time consuming but easy enough at that point. Still have to make it through the final stage after the server comes back up... fingers crossed!

EDIT/UPDATE: Didn't make it, my Wiz drew Combustible to start and was burned to the ground almost immediately, things deteriorated from there. Really thought I'd be able to go further with the great staff drops... oh well.

 

I think any use of the shop makes this challenge far too easy. I mean at this point you may as well just be playing the actual game with the caveat that once you lose your party three times, you have to start over.