Yeah, I've been making that suggestion for months (see the posts right above). I don't think they currently have the technology to do it that way though. Definitely would be something investigating. Didn't know Hearthstone did that (I haven't played between balance patches yet), but glad to know the system works in other games.
Just want to point out that Hearthstone has benefit/bane of being a very simplisitic game with very few options available to the devs when it comes to "nerfing/buffing/balancing" generally-- cos they ONLY have cards, NOT items... not to mention NO strategy/variety when it comes to the interactions of races with classes, characters with boards/terrain, or even (3-character)party-based deck-building, etc. Balance in Card Hunter is overall more complicated/involved-- with the resulting benefit that the meta is much more stable/comprehensible-- e.g. the issue with "3-dwarven-control-wizards" being a result of "3-character party"+"dwarf race"+"control cards"+"wizard class" (not to mention their interaction with certain maps/terrains) means that any balancing must start from SPECIFIC cards/effects, THEN items/maps/etc... it'd be crazy to START by taking the hammer to "3-character party", or "dwarf race", or"control cards,"or"wizard class". So in the event a card/effect is being "balanced", it would be hard to say whether it is a clear "buff/nerf" to ALL items carrying that card, let alone compensate ALL characters/players using that cards-- in fact, it is in the nature of true balancing (not the Hearthstone-style "nerf/buff" jerk-around) that a card could have one effect reduced with another augmented, e.g. like the way Blue Manchu is attempting to "re-balance" Inspiring Presence into more of a healing card that a card-draw card.
The problem right now is that a few very key items/strategies are so out of whack in terms of efficacy, that players who want to be 'successful' from a rating standpoint are pigeonholed into using a very small number of items/cards. Why have 2200+ items or whatever the current figure is, if 99% of them aren't competitive? A false choice isn't a choice for MP success. If its Pokemon and 'you gotta collect em all' fine. But, having a vast variety of items is not variety at all, if they aren't usable (if goal is rating). The things I linked before are the reasons why they aren't usable. Nerfing inspiring presence further reduces the items/cards/strategies available. Nerfing one of the only tools priests actually bring to the fight is fine if priests were going to get other buffs, but for now, all I see is the worst class, with the worst itemization getting nerfed, and the strongest, most broken classes/items getting comparatively stronger after this. This is insane.
Well, the nerfing of Inspiring Presence really only hits Firestorm (FS) decks. Not many people used Inspiring Presence outside of FS because it is usually too risky to use. It isn't that big of a nerf to Priests and doesn't really make any class stronger or weaker. The change is really just for a very edge case scenario that doesn't really happen (you need 4+ Legendaries of the same item to make it work reliably). Granted, it does make IP even worse and doubtful that anyone will run it. But whatever. I think the *real* problem here is that this is the only thing being changed...
It's a serious problem. Having a lot of items does not mean you have a great variety of item choices. Quality is really important. Now too many items are just unusable. One point to note is that this game has a quite unique system which three/six cards are grouped as one item. Nerfing one card is ok, but you need to consider the ITEMs that got affected as well. You need to keep the quality of the item so that it won't drop too much. Inspiring Presence is a very good card which gives you hand card size +1. However, if the same item has a card that is not good to use, it does not really give any actual advantage. I still feel pretty bad how the devs nerf the card draw last time. A lot of items (even the whole class for priest) simply became unusable. (Even for my epic demons golden blade ... 10 unpreventable damages are simply unbearable)
I ran a deck to 1695 that was 1 priest and 2 wiz, not firestorm, but featuring a few inspiring presence draws (since wizards can control their formation unless wwe/ww/wowed). It was definitely possible to use it to success in the right deck composition. Now, I just can't see a reason to run a priest at all unless someone is running something extremely niche and unexpected to troll people OR some frenzy variation (which isn't great unless you have 2-4 VPs). And firestorm was one of the only viable ways to counter 3DC at all. So, if you see what I'm saying, 1 Priest/2 Wiz is compromised as an effective comp in general, and firestorm teams are compromised as a counter to 3DC; thus making 3DC even more griefish.
That is true. So, 3DC had the advantage facing almost any type of deck. If you didn't run another 3DC, there were very few ways to beat them. There was FS, WW/WWe and NS, basically. Now, they nerf FS builds, one of the very few flaws of the 3DC build. And since NS is very difficult to get and WW/WWe is easy, with this nerf the devs are pushing people that don't want to use a 3DC to run lots of WW and WWe, as it is the only way to counter a 3DC if you don't have VP or Lochaber Axe. And now there are players that want to nerf WW/WWe. That would be cool. Hey, let's have all a 3DC orgy! The requirements to enter the party will be to have at least 150 traits and no less than 80 WoW. My point is, players that ask for a WW nerf should realize that these cards are not included in the decks just because, the reason is that it is now the only 3DC flaw other than NS. The solution for not having to see so many WW/WWe isn't nerfing or banning these cards, on the contrary, the solution is nerfing 3DC. If the devs nerfed 3DC and players started to see that it is possible to win against them without the need to have WW/WWe, we would not see so many of these cards.
I agree that Priests need some love, but before they can address their balance they need to get rid of the extreme case problems. While I don't agree with their change, I definitely agree that Inspiring Presence (IP) needed to be changed. Firestorm is definitely not one of the only ways to counter 3DC -- in fact a lot of 3DC ran WW/WWE or would just WoW your team apart. That is also assuming they didn't get a Resistant Hide and just shut down your team. Firestorm usually failed against 3DC from my games (I ran an FS + IP deck to about 1550 Elo). Actually, if you look at the top players most of them don't actually run 3DC. Using Nimble Strike, Team Run (or any Team Move card), Immovable, and Arrogant Armor, you can really completely negate the effectiveness of 3DC. It is strong, yes, but that's really for another discussion about balancing other things. As far as IP is concerned though it doesn't really mean much to 3DC for or against.
And when you need the heals, that's probably when you need the attacks too. I think the big problem with this change is the *sharing*. All the enemy will get it too.
Actually, now that I think of it, when you need the heals, you will probably prefer drawing blocks and armor over another attack, while the enemy leechers prefer to draw attacks. The enemy will get a chance to use his cards (attacks!) first, so with the nerf, chances are that the character that needed the heals the most will instead end up dead. Isn't it supposed to be a heal spell? Talk about Irony.
Yeah, I think it should only give the enemy one of the two: either the healing or the card draw. Right now there is no real reason to use ti outside of extremely edge cases, which means it will most likely never see competitive play. If it Healed 5 only your team in 3, but gave the enemy a card draw, it could be an interesting "risk" move. Or if it healed the enemy but only gave you the card draw then it would be a decent "rush in to capture points and heal up before turning to fighting" since the enemy will most likely be at max life when used. That would probably be my solution to it, as right now I don't think it is really feasible at all to run outside of very niche builds. Which seems weird for a (now) overly valued Gold Rare.
I also ran a FS build (the one I posted) to an elo of 1699, and while it had problems against 2 or 3 warriors teams, never lost against a 3DC, even when they had Resistant hide. So FS is a 3DC counter. First, most of the top players don't run a 3DC because they have tons of Nimble Strikes (that also need a nerf) that, as you said, with Team move cards, Arrogant armor and Inmovable can counter a 3DC. But if you don't have those Nimble Strikes, the other cards are not enough. Especially when it's not possible to have Inmovable and Arrogant Armor at the same time (unless you get very lucky and draw first Inmovable and in the next turn Arrogant Armor).
Another thing too, if you are running an FS deck, if you are smart you have 1-2 forms of armor removal (rod of boiling winds is a great item for that express purpose because you get WWE also). So, inspiring presence priests would help the wiz draw this, and if you hit a 3dc team that for some bad reason (there's one person who runs this comp in 1500 range from what i remember), just boil that armor (and toughnesses) away from ranged. Solved. And Jacques is right: as broken as 3DC is because of trait-cycling, nimble strike warriors are even more broken. NS/VP remains the most overpowered thing in the game. VP should be like a level 40 weapon at least if it was appropriately balanced. And now, if you inspiring presence against those teams, congrats, they just drew more nimble strikes.
We have a complicated formula for balancing items based on the values of its cards, but many cards have really bad values (Healing Blessing and Nimble Strike are in the same power tier, two levels above Firestorm; Able Bludgeon is "most complex" while Resistant Hide is "least complex"). However, only once have I seen the devs make any changes to these values. If we change Nimble Strike from Silver Rare to Emerald Uncommon (it's no more complicated than Lunging Hack), then I believe Vibrant Pain would change from 18 Legendary to 36 Rare, and raise the levels of the other items with the card (like Nifty Halberd). I would fully support this change. And while VP would be unusable until the level cap is raised, you're not actually taking it away like they did with Fireball.
While I am not sure if NS should be Emerald or Gold, I want to state that the policy of not changing the valuation is crippling when it comes to balancing the game, in my opinion.
As is the apparently unstated policy of not acknowledging any player concerns about balance related to NS/VP, or addressing the concerns with anything other than a we may balance it later type approach.
I agree the devs are being too hands-off when it comes to MP balance. I would love to see the devs shake things up with more regularity (at least once a month). It doesn't take too long before it gets tedious to play against the same decks all the time. What's more, it's frustrating to feel like if you want to win, you must play a particular deck, because it is the only one that is competitive, especially if it's not your favorite deck to play. I have stopped playing much multiplayer because I don't really like playing against 3DC, and I don't really want to play 3DC.
People really over estimate the power of 3DC. A lot of the best players don't run it and do very well. Look at TheShadowTitan who is currently 1644 -- he runs 2 Warriors and 1 Priest. He doesn't use Vibrant Pain or Lochaber Axe either. Yes, a lot of the top builds are samey (NS Dwarf Warriors) and I would love to see the devs do a balance patch, but saying 3DC is the be-all-end-all is kind of a lie.
Well, everyone talks according to where they are in the ranking. Bluesage must be in the mid-low rank where 3DC still rules, and where there are a lot of players that have the same build. So what he says could be applied to that rank, but not to the high rank. And while is true that you can't say that 3DC is the best all around build, you can't assume either that everyone that has a high elo has LA or VP. I'm currently 8th in the rank, and I don't have even one Lochaber. Yes, I pray to the gods every day for one Lochaber, but I wasn't lucky so far.
Yes, people do talk from their Elo experience. I've tried to keep my advice broad -- I've played from 900 Elo to 1650 back to 1300 Elo and now approaching 1500. 3DC is strong, but honestly there are a ton of counters to it (Team Run, Hard To Pin Down, Dancing Cut). I just wonder if people would be so against 3DC if they watched top players who don't have insanely rare items like Vibrant Pain who do well against it. Would be nice to have "highlighted matches" or something like they do in League of Legends. I definitely recommend that people spectate high ranked matches and learn from what others do. Either way, I definitely think that 3DC should take a hit (specifically WoW). Just like WW/WWE and NS should as well.
