Hey guys. I'm opening the floor to discuss possible rules changes for the tournament. Issues of kibitzing and time control came up during the ArcadianRook vs. Red Mage match, and I want to let everyone make their points. A few things from my perspective. 1) I do not want to change any rules that affect players in the middle of a round. 2) I do not want to chill ALL spectator speech. Discussing the game is good as long as it doesn't interfere with the players. 3) The current time control was chosen not at random but due to specific logistical reasons, so any lengthening of it would have to have significant benefits to be worth doing. Of course, future tournaments will not have this exact ruleset. To be clear, all discussion in this thread should be about what needs to happen to this tournament.
About kibitzing: I didn't read Charmer's message. Actually I didn't read any message since none of them appeared. Last message in the up corner window was you saying "shut up and play". Only when I saw your video I realized that there were other messages. About time limit: I totally forgot about the time limit, my mistake I'm sorry for all the people that were watching for the poor show we offered. That said, I think that the problem here is that losing because of time limit affects the following game because you start paying more attention to the timer than to the actual game. I've never played so badly as I did in the second game. By the way
If I can insert my 2 cents here, I certainly don't want to put up with some dolt talking about their cat or dinner or toilet or whatever; these people should be warned and/or kicked out if possible. As far as offering advice goes, the players have access to as much information as spectators do; I would prefer people to keep their strategy to themselves (or at least keep it tasteful/interesting) but in general they simply shouldn't be trusted anyways. On the other hand, I don't believe that the chat affects the players unless they choose to be distracted by the sfx or leave the chat window open/read it on their turn. As for the time limit, it does seem to be a bit on the short side compared to what we are used to; however I believe that the time pressure is good for many reasons and shouldn't be changed unless the map could cause problems.
I wasn't there, and I don't know what's sparked off this thread, but I think kibitzer chat that's visible to the players is a genuine problem for a fair tournament. Imagine you're in the final, and during your opponent's turn a kibitzer comments "Of course, oppo needs to watch out for <card you're holding> here". It's a problem as even without a view of the cards, strategic advice can be given to players.
A: Players can hide the chat. Just click Battle Log. Also, players shouldn't lose their nerve so easily, that is a part of any game. B: If a kibitzer knows that a player 2 probably has a {card} in their hand, so should player 1. Either by making an educated guess, checking the forum, using the internet, etc. If a spectator is going out of their way to look up items and cards and is giving an unfair advantage to one player, that is up to the ... referee's[?] discretion. Then again, what is stopping a player from having a friend (with a laptop maybe) sitting next to them and helping them play?
LOL, my "shut up and play" was at ArcadianRook who just wouldn't stop babbling I didn't think Charmer's message was out of line at all. The discussion was sparked by Rook's outrage. Yeah, I'm sorry about that effect. I think the best solutions to the kibitzing "problem" are ones that require the devs to code in a chat that is visible only to spectators.
Or to only make it such that tournament participants can see each other msgs. Spectators can see participants msgs. BUT participants cannot see spectators msgs. Basically, each chat msg needs some form of tag control.
I don't mind rules staying exactly as they are for this tournament, but for the next one I think more time would be better. With entry-level tournaments like this one, I think it would be best if there was one "thing", one rule change, that would differentiate that tournament from others. Problem is that currently we have three things, basically three different tournaments in one: Tournament 1: Peasant decks only. Tournament 2: Sideboard. Tournament 3: Timer has half the time you normally have (speed tournament) I think that the more these kind of special rules you add, the more complicated and weird the tournament gets. It might be easy for veterans, but could be difficult for new players who are still learning to play the game with the default rules. For example unless you have experience in having less time or playing faster, that 10 minute clock will definitely be an issue. It will increase both the number of rushed bad moves, and number of timeouts. And then there is the problem of shorter time being a disadvantage to wizards. When I play wizards, I usually use about 12 minutes per match, which is way more then I use when I play something else. This is because with wizards you have a lot more options, therefore need more time to think. My main point is that unless it is supposed to be a speed tournament where being forced to make quick moves is the whole point of the whole thing, it would be better to have the default timer everyone has grown accustomed to. But like I said, I don't think we need to change it for this first tournament. As for chat room discussion ban.. I think we should encourage all discussion, not ban it. Lobby is an illogical and bad place to spam match comments. Discussion about a specific match should definitely happen in the spectator mode of that match. Like I said earlier, how much help could a person give to someone else in chat? I mean they don't even see the cards. A spectator mentioning in chat that a player is about to run out of time is not a big deal. I do that every time in MP because I think it's fair and winning by staying quiet in a situation like that is beyond lame. Helping your opponent notice the clock shows good sportsmanship which is what the Peasant tournaments should be all about.
I think that players should not be penalized for doing either - chatting excessively or not chatting at all. If I'm a player and chat gets to me, I can just click over to the battle log and never see it. The players hold all the cards here. Personally, I will chat because I'm pretty social. Even in game, and even with the abbreviated timer. I still make wrong moves with all the time in the world after all.
