Vibrant Pain.. and how to fix it

I guess its only saving grace is that it is Legendary.. so hard to come by (haven't face it too much before)

For for the distance it travel.. would also suggest lower the damage of Nibble Strike to 4.

 

I'm getting real tired of people going on about formulas they don't know about or meaningless stats like the rarity of an item or the color of a cards title somehow influencing where they can go. All of that means nothing, absolutely nothing. Those values were set by people, just like you and me, not some omniscient calculator with perfect judgement. And people can make mistakes. The proof is right here.

And it's just an arbitrary label that doesn't even have meaning anyways, even in the context of "rarity+value=power". Sometimes we see nonsenical things like these two cards, or these two cards that just turn any notion of rarity and color on its head, unless somebody wants to start arguing that "7=9" or "6=8".

 

I play SP so take this all of what I say with a grain of salt since the main concern for the item is in MP.

Even though I've read a lot about Vibrant Pain on the forums this is the first time I've bothered to actually look at what cards the item has on it. I agree that it needs to be changed only because it's completely boring. I totally understand how powerful it is because I've been using Whiteglow Flail lately and the Nimble Strikes are awesome. But what I love about that item is it's utility. I understand that there are some deck builders out there who are playing the numbers and adding in traits in order to raise the chance of getting a certain card and this item is perfect for that because Nimble Strike is so good. And that makes total sense in MP since you're trying to win with the best that you've been able to collect. In SP I already have beaten the campaign, but for me the joy is finding a new way to do it. So for me, Vibrant Pain would not always be equipped.

So, maybe I'm coming at this from a different angle, but why couldn't Vibrant Pain be changed by replacing some of the cards with other like value (Rare/Silver) cards without them ALL being Nimble Strike? For argument's sake, let's remove 3 Nimble Strikes for 1 of each other Rare/Silver cards? What these should be I don't know, but doing this could nerf the item's strength without nerfing its rarity or token costs.Which I think is a win for current owners since the item would remain very powerful and a win for everyone else since it wouldn't help over-saturate a deck with Nimble Strike.

This would also keep Nimble Strike the same. And I support this because I like when cards are somewhat more powerful or somewhat less powerful than their peers. (And I don't think that Dancing Cut is a peer of Nimble Strike due to it's card rarity.) It makes the game interesting to me. If everything were made exactly balanced with everything else I feel the game would be more rigid and less fun.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on VP.

 

If you look at other Legendary lvl 18 options, you'll see:
Axe Of The Titans - 36 damage total (with 20 from two Obliterating Chop - so up to 56 potentially) + two surging shield blocks
Bohemian Ear Spoon - 38 Damage, 3 Range 2 attacks, 2 Penetrating attacks (and it even has to use Common Penetrating Strike to keep damage that low), 2 Polearm Slash that also work as melee armor.
Reap The Whirlwind - just 18 damage from three Strong Hack but loads of mobility with Violent Spin
Reaper's Scythe - 37 Damage from three attacks (again, with 20 from two Obliterating Chop - so up to 57 potentially)+ 2 Dodge + Blind Rage

As far as damage goes, Vibrant Pain is already on low side. All it has going for it is damage "projection" - but you can go with other options if you can reliably push your characters with Team Runs/Sprints/Winds of War instead.

 

Not all. Just the silver ones (which there are 0 for PCs). Shambling Bash. The rest are paper or bronze so they can't have their damage buffed.

 

Just give everyone one and only one Vibrant Pain to use in MP. Levels the playing field. Problem solved.

 

36 range 4 damage is easily 'worth' more. You'll connect the hits. Seldom you'll end the round with a Nimble Strike still in your hand, unless you want to. The same can't be said of the other weapons.

 

Nimble Strike mostly works because Frenzy Buffs for it are relatively easy to get - and they add more damage to "baseline". But basic +3 Frenzy still needs three strikes to kill human wizard - strikes to which you can respond (usually by moving behind your team in a spot where you cannot be nimble striken again). And if you root him, he becomes unable to use them even at range 1.

Other legendaries already allow to kill MP character without any buffs (two to three characters if we're killing elves) - and with less effective protection from armor. If they Quick Run with Obliterating Bludgeon, there is nothing you can do to respond other then hope that they come from blockable side and you got proper block in hand - and that's basically equivalent of three nimble strikes in two cards.

 

VP itself is an issue because no other card comes close to the step attack potential, and maybe because NS is a bit undervalued.

Step attacks in general are an issue because

• They provide tons of utility in one card as well as damage
• Weak attacks benefit just as well if not better from melee buffs, which are very common and easy to stack
• Warriors other choices have significantly less utility

I don't have a reasonable and easy solution to the problem. I have a feeling that step will still be dominant even if you tone down VP / NS.

 

Any card that has dual use will be valued higher by players. I regularly use Cheap Fencer's Boots on low level characters. And when I can I have no problem using Lunging Hack simply as Shuffle when it gets me out of a bad situation instead of using it for damage.

 

Yeah, they are fantastic all purpose cards that easily have a half-dozen different uses. I even remember buffing my warrior enough in MP that a shifty stab was doing 11 damage unmitigated while also using the step to move out of lava.

In fact another problem is that large step attacks allow warriors to subvert their class weakness. The reason they have the best damage, health and armor is because they lack control skills and are extremely range limited. By stacking heavy step cards you can effectively ignore their weakness.

And I want to state I do run a step warrior (although no VP). I've tried all other warrior builds and it's simply the strongest in the most situations, which I find really pigeonholes the class.

 

I'm very glad you made this thread and I didn't have to. I've personally stopped playing the game until it gets fixed with the card drawing and nimble strike abuse. Nimble strike is a green-caliber card masquerading as a silver (possibly a gold, but I think a comparison of emerald abilities and gold abilities in multiplayer will prove that nimble strike should be emerald quality), which is amplified by the ridiculousness that is draw-spam. Not sure the new system will alleviate this problem, because 2x priest 1x warrior inspiring presence / dwarven battle cry / inspiration + melee buffs still make nimble strike unparalleled and broken.

There's no compelling defense as to why nimble strike should not follow the formula that if you move more you lose damage like all of the other steps, but IF it is going to follow that formula, Nimble Strike needs to have its valuation change to gold at a minimum, and most reasonably to emerald, as that its real effective quality.

* The only defense toward changing Vibrant Pain and Nimble Strike appears to be "unintended consequences" or "difficulty." If players realize, as I have, that there is one dominant MP supreme item, and that in most scenarios you will be unable to obtain it with more time investment other than randomly, they will probably stop playing.

I tired of outplaying my opponents and losing to draw-decks, so I decided to run a draw-deck and run it better. At this point, I plateaued in the 1690s after reaching rank 2, and realized what was preventing me from climbing higher without queue dodging or nursing my rating, was a lack of ability to counter nimble strikes. I sought, in vain, for several weeks, a way to counter nimble strikes, and I came to the conclusion, that there is no way to reliably keep one's rating high AND have a viable build to counter nimble strikes without having a nimble strike vibrant pain warrior myself. That's really bad for multiplayer, and that's why I've (temporarily) quit card-hunter.

 

I'd go with either lowering the step by 1, or limiting how many NS one character can have by changing how many are on VP. Maybe 3 NS and 3 other useful things. Blind Rage and Frenzy Aura? Something like that.

Reducing the step by 1 would be a good fix too. It shouldn't be easy for a dwarf to move as well as an elf, but at times the more powerful items seem to make the unique racial movement cards inconsequential. Or worse, it puts those without such movement at a big disadvantage.

 

Lochaber Axe exists, and it's still the #2 weapon of choice for basically all warriors I've ever seen above rating 1400. Even if people have Vibrant Pain, they'll still use Lochaber Axe too, simply because the gold token limit stops people from wearing three Vibrant Pains.

 

Shortly after I learned that Vibrant Pain existed, I wanted one. Then I missed getting one because it was the club reward for a battle I fought while not a member, and that just added to the mystique. But now...I don't know, it doesn't really fit onto either of the warriors in my current build. I don't feel that I need any more mobility, and it would significantly drop my damage output. Maybe it is ludicrously overpowered for some builds, or maybe the hype has gotten out of hand, or most likely a little of both. People certainly seem to feel passionate about it. I suppose I might try a different build if I got one, but it's definitely not the item I'm most hoping for when collecting loot.

 

I often run Nifty Halberd instead of The Strongarm or Blazing Shortsword as a token free weapon as even putting 2 nimble strikes into your deck can have massive benefits, Nimble Strike just feels so out of whack in the power department.

 

Let me show my current setup with Vibrant Pain on warrior used in double warrior - priest team, so that you can see how it actually works.

Skazdeb
Level 1 Dwarf Warrior

Vibrant Pain​

Nifty Halberd​

Rageblood Dagger​

Gauntlets Of The Giant​

Granwick's Shield​

Helm Of Alacrity​

Jumpdragger Boots​

Perfect Ferocity​

Frenzied Slicing​

1 x Slowed​

1 x Sprint, Team!​

1 x Raging Strike​

8 x Nimble Strike​

2 x Slicer​

1 x Reliable Hide Armor​

1 x Reliable Mail​

1 x Retreat​

2 x Blind Rage​

3 x Frenzy Aura​

1 x Surging Shield Block​

1 x Rushing Aura​

1 x Hard To Pin Down​

2 x Weak Parry​

1 x Dancing Cut​

1 x Dwarven Battle Cry​

3 x Weak Chop​

1 x Able Bludgeon​

1 x Clumsy Chop​

3 x Vicious Thrust​

No Lochaber Axe because i don't have any (with Lochaber Axe it would be 11 Nimble Strikes total).
No Slippery Shield because i don't have it and there are no free gold tokens for it.
Dwarf because it's only way to get three Frenzy Aura.

It's pretty rare that this warrior doesn't get either Frenzy Aura(s) or Blind Rage, often he has two frenzy auras + blind rage or mass frenzy, and dishes out 12-14 damage armor-ignoring Nimble Strikes ; but at the same time once he unloads he often remains naked or close to naked - and vulnerable - since there are only two "keep" armor cards in entire deck. At the same time even buffed Weak Chop from him can be quite deadly.

Other warrior runs same helmet for sprint team/retreat and two Team Runs - from boots and from Savvy Attacker, while priest provides Leadership for faster deck cycling while also running four Nimble Strikes from Mindshrinker and Whiteglow Flail

 

If a single card dominates the game and you see a complaint thread every day something is wrong

Six silver cards is par for the course for a lvl 18 weapon. If Vibrant Pain is that much more desirable than others of that category, Nimble Strike is valued wrong.

I don't think the devs have publicly commented on Nimble Strike yet but that doesn't mean they're not aware of the issue so let's stay calm and see what upcoming balancing updates bring.

A simple fix would be:

Nimble Strike. Silver. Melee Slashing. Step 4. Damage 4.

Dashing Execution. Gold. Melee Slashing. Step 4. Damage 7.

Bump Nimble Strike down to 4 damage to be in line with Dancing Cut and Vicious Thrust. +3 damage seems to equal +1 quality, which leads to the card above. Note that 3x Gold, 3x Bronze seems to be the maximum for lvl 18 weapons, so a Vibrant Pain of Gold cards would not be possible.

Common / Uncommon / Rare are inadequate as balancing tools. Even at the current rate (1:500 drop rate for legendaries, one of fifty possible picks) frequent players will have a collection of the best items at some point. The only balancing tool that works is token cost, because it limits how many of that item you can put in a deck. Ideally, all 2x yellow token weapons should be balanced against each other within a certain margin of error. Card quality is a helpful tool to adjucate that but it's not 100% failproof.

 

Step 4 damage 4 isn't balanced either. Step 4 is the problem. There shouldn't be 4 step abilities at all. Losing 2 damage is insignificant when the attack itself can be buffed. The main problem for warriors is lack of mobility, and that should remain their weakness. Vibrant pain causes you to have warriors without weaknesses. Its the mobility that needs tweaking most of all and the valuation of the card nimble strike itself if its going to be step 4 damage 6. Adding another broken ability doesn't help the issue, it makes it worse and is not sensible.