Turin's list of worthwile balance changes

Those are some great catches on the underpowered cards, they get used so rarely that I completely forget about them. I disagree about the overpowered cards (other than nimble), especially slippery is very well balanced with the other elven racials.

Some additional cards I noticed noone uses: Unholy Energy and Potent Spark.

 

I think that's an itemization issue. The only card I've found personally that's semi-useful with potent spark is the level 16 legendary staff that has freeze on it too.

 

That is true. Most of the card discussed here are card with complex effect/interaction. Potent Spark is just a straight up damage dealing card. Whether people use the card or not depends much more on which items carry it rather than how much people actually want to use it.

Card is good if people take an item because of that card. Card is overpowered if you must take that item because of that card. Card is bad if people decide to not pick that item if it contain that card. Card is underpowered if people always have a (subjectively) better alternative item than the one containing that card.

 

If you have dodge in your hand you can carefully position yourself so that if dodge activates, you can actually move somewhere useful. Stacking dodges on a warrior is a really fun build because it allows him to "tank" much better than any other build I've found.

But even so, you are consigning your fate to a 50/50 luck roll for the dodge to go off. On your warrior, who can take a few hits before being in trouble.

On the other hand, Mages pay through the nose for Reflexive Teleport, with it's 33% chance of activation. True, you could close your eyes and put your wizard anywhere on the map and he would still probably be able to teleport somewhere safe if it activates, but you are consigning your more fragile wizard to a lesser chance dodge, when it is much more effective to position properly if you want to avoid getting hit.

Let's put it this way: I actually tried building a wizard in MP who used several reflexive teleports, and the build failed utterly.

In 90% of situations I would prefer having a Run over having a Scuttle. That's how often it comes up that you really really want a free move 2 card. Maybe if there was a map which was over 50% difficult terrain or something.

I have a Ulrin's Scuttling Socks (3x scuttle boots for a gold orb). When I looted it, I stared at it for about 2 minutes, scratching my head. I couldn't think of a single build which would benefit from using these boots over others, just like I could barely think of any situations where I would prefer having Scuttle in my hand over say... Run.

If free move cards would, say, ignore encumber effects, that would be a whole other ballgame.

 

I think Reflexive Teleport is fine as a gold card. 1/3 chance is not something to be relied on, but the card doesn't get removed from your hand when it triggers. If you don't get encumbered, then that 1/3 chance is going to be with you for the rest of the game, and it may end up saving you from multiple attacks. Even if it doesn't save you from any attacks, the card is still useful as just a teleport move - which can be useful for jumping over walls to take a shortcut to a victory square, or jumping over the enemy warrior to get access to the enemy wizard. Also, you may not realise this but it can trigger from allied 'attack' spells as well - including Unholy Frenzy and Accelerated Thought. Obviously you won't want to jump out of line of sight of these things, but you can use the effect to get a free move into a better possition. Again, you don't lose the card when you do this. You can get a lot of value out of this card as long you can find a spot to keep it in your hand for a few rounds! (And because of that, it probably works best in decks which don't rely on you keeping other cards in your deck, such as important armour cards, or attack combo cards such as All Out Attack.)

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I'd hardly call it 'paying through the nose'. There are a few arcane items which combine that card with other useful cards, such as Glittering Pin and Wand Of Rapid Air.

Besides, Reflexive Teleport isn't only available on mages. You can get the card on boots, so anyone can use it.

 

I agree with this, scuttle really suffers because it is only a move 2. Compared to Retreat which moves 3 so allows you to bypass a warrior and get that very important 1 space so they can't just turn around and all out attack you with some powerful attack. I think ignoring encumber effects would be fine for free move, Scamper is usually only one per item so I don't think it would allow any kind of overpowered setup.

 

Ooh! Free move ignoring encumber effects, I like the sound of that!

 

Again, in multiplayer, I don't plan for my wizard to get hit by 6 attacks, so that 2 can be dodged. I agree with you that the card has SOME value, but not as much value as you seem to attest. How often do people purposefully run Thickened Mail in PVP, because hey, a 5+ armor roll is a good and viable defencive option, which will eventually be successfully rolled if you get attacked often enough?

I didn't believe you when I read this, but I just tested it and it works! That's pretty cool, this makes it the only block-like card that I know of which triggers from your own team's effects.

I do call it 'paying through the nose'. If I wanted WWE on a blue token arcane item, I would take Hurricane Stone, Rod Of Winds, or especially Greenstone Pendant long before I would consider Glittering Pin.

If I wanted Wall Of Fire, the two standout options for me are the ubiquitous Runestone or Wand Of Seared Air. After that there are 3 or 4 other options I would pick over Wand Of Rapid Air, unless I was specifically trying to include Reflexive Teleport because I thought it was a good item.

Again, it's not that I think Reflexive Teleport is bad, it's just overvalued at gold, which causes items that have it to be overall worse than other items at a similar price point.

The only other option I can find is on boots, such as Daring Clogs. I have 0 token boots I would wear over those...

 

This is just completely wrong for strategy games of imperfect information. You don't want to reveal anything to your opponent when possible. Seeing that card just means the opponent plays better against it...

Anyway great post Yth agree with everything. Maybe slippery isn't OP just because elves suck though... and compared to other racials its really not that great. I'd still rather be drawing lots of cards (dwarfs) or having my team run around the map (team sprints).

 

Regarding Slippery, I agree that it isn't really OP, just that it's a bit undervalued. It really is the best trait, for evers. I would say it deserves to be Emerald instead of just Gold. I only mentioned it because I'm afraid of the potential imbalance if non-elf items start having it.

 

My sugestions:
Inspiring Presence Keep the same, or make it that caster takes 2hp and draws a card and everyone on the range heals 2hp and draws a card

Demonic Feedback make it deal extra 3dmg to target for each card more than 2 in the hand (so for example:if target was 4 cards and they gets hitted by this card, it draws 2 more but take 7 dmg (the base 1 plus 6 more), would open a enw strategy also,for dmging enemys with alot of cards in hand

Nimble Strike hum make it similar to dangerous move, if you land near a enemy take some dmg? maybe 2dmg?

Resistant Hide increase the die roll

Mass Frenzy make it a 1 turn efect,and add draw a card. and fix rightyous frenzy, make it last 2-3 turns andd still a single target spell

 

This isn't a fix. Nimbus negates damage. Nimble strike is broken as an ability because you can move too far AND you do high damage.

 

Slippery *is* very powerful, but...

The chance of this (or any other elf-skill specific cards) ever coming to non elves is virtually zero. remember that elves have a huge inborn disadvatage (HP) that unlike dwarf move speed cannot be itemized away. It seems pretty cut-and-dry that these type of cards have been balanced with elves and their frail elf-bodies in mind.

 

I would strongly argue that this is a buff for this card which is definitely not needed!

 

ye but it would be only for 1 turn.

 

Yeah but one turn at a completely free cost (0 cards) is a lot better than two turns for a normal cost (1 card)... I mean there are arguments for both I guess but I know which I'd rather take!

 

yeah, imho that would be a definite (and un-needed) buff to mass frenzy. my feeling is *if* it needs to be nerfed, hit the damage value or add LoS to it.

 

Giving mass frenzy a card draw would be like making it into a super-inspiration that as a small bonus effect gave your entire team +3 damage on attacks.

 

well just decrease mass frenzy duration for the round thats cast and increase the duration of rightous frenzy for 2 rounds (since is a single target spell)

 

The biggest card offender's right now, in my opinion (other than card draw related cards), are Impenetrable Nimbus, Hard To Pin Down, and Nimble Strike.


Hard To Pin Down : I like Jon's idea of switching the 3+ and 4+ activations for Hard To Pin Down and Surging Block...and that may help fix both those cards in one swoop.

Impenetrable Nimbus: is just too good....this game scales to Lv 50, any card that makes you immune to ALL damage shouldn't be on a minor power token item. Either change it to only prevent certain types of damage i.e. magic/divine/physical..or bump this up to a higher bracket.

Nimble Strike: is just too good, as we all know. If it is going to move the fighter 4, it has to do less damage than 7. I'm thinking 5 damage is more in line here, otherwise the movement needs to be reduced...which I really think is the crux of the imbalance, not the damage. The fighter already has more HP than any other class, and this card is just making the fighters way too mobile.