Specific Itemization Problem

Here you can see that this level 18 rare shield is significantly better than the level 18 legendary one. Hard to pin hits 2/3 times while surging shield block only hits 1/2 times. Not only that but the move is one more on hard to pin. Finally, being able to move after a successful block is very good... an option you don't even have to take. Gotta say it is pretty frustrating to play for days, finally get a legendary and have it be a pretty bad item...!

 

I agree that Hawlic's Surging Shield is not as powerful as Slippery Shield. But what exactly is the problem from your point of view? Is it that the legendary shield is too weak; or that the rare shield is too powerful; or that a legendary item is weaker than a similar rare item; or that one of the items is 'universally inferior' to the other? (Incidentally, this pair of shields is missing from the list. I suppose one could argue that if a player needs to save their move card for when they need it, then they might actually prefer the lower block chance - but I think that's a bit of a stretch.)

I think it's fine that some legendary items aren't very powerful. And in some sense it's good that the more powerful item is the more common item - so that newer players aren't at as much of an item disadvantage. I think it would be very bad for the game if all the best items were legendary items.

I personally think Slippery Shield is so powerful that it removes variety in builds by overshadowing all the other shields; but I don't think that's the point you're trying to make, because that has nothing to do with Hawlic's Surging Shield.

 

The first and biggest problem is how this fits in with the itemization structure of the game. Legendary items are quite rare. If you are playing this game *a lot* then you can expect to see perhaps 1 legendary item per day. There are about 225 legendary items in the game. Thus, to get a good assortment of legendary items a person would need to play several months. A few of these items are very good while some are very bad. When a lot of legendary items are essentially "blanks" it adds *a lot* of variance to who ends up with the good items. So in 4 months time you have 2 guys that played all day every day. One could very easily have a set of all the good weapons while the other might have one or even none of the truly great items.

This system is basically the worst of both worlds. Some guys will still have a set of overpowered items and do fantastically and cause frustration in their opponents. However, there is no good way for people to catch up. Under a normal system where items can win the game for you at least people have an opportunity to catch up. In this game is comes down almost entirely to luck. For a person wanting to compete at the top level, but after a couple month's hasn't found one of those great items yet... well that is about time to throw in the towel. Should have gotten luckier I guess.

When you make it so all legendary items are "the best" for that slot/build/token req/etc then you take away a lot of this variance. Indeed then people can reliably expect to have a good set of items. Perhaps someone else will have gotten luckier but still, they will have a reasonable number of useful items in that time and be able to compete reasonable well. Unlike now where some guys are going to find 2 vibrant pain while others will find none. Saying that these two people can compete on the same level is just being silly - assuming skill levels are about the same, that is.

Secondly, the fact that these shields exist as they do demonstrates that the cards themselves are not being properly valued upon their creation. The way the game seems to work is that items get a budget based on their level and rarity. Well this example clearly shows that there are big problems when deciding item balance in this manner. I mean this isn't even an apples and oranges comparison. One of these cards is *way* better in every way than the other. Their value should be fixed to reflect that. If the developers didn't get this right you have to wonder just how far off other item budget decisions are.

 

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

That sounds like a good change to me. And luckily, you're one of the few people who can effect such a change!

 

Right ??, I was just telling Randimar what a horrible item he's selling there 2 weeks ago and show him my Slippery Shield instead.

You have convinced me, the extra benefit of moving from Hard to Pin Down is totally optional and Hard to Pin Down is universally superior than Surging Shield Block. I'll update my list tomorrow or so for this change.

 

I think if you did that and also made the surging block move after taking a block... then you could start to make an argument that the legendary one is better.

Edit: though I'd still probably use the rare one...

 

Slippery shield is far and away the best shield in the game for PvP. For PvE it may not be in all circumstances (parry buckler is a close rival, or a shield with ranged absorb blocks depending on mish may compete).

There's a big trend in this game for item tiers not to be reflective of usefulness.

 

Hard To Pin Down certainly is an awesome block card. I wouldn't say Slippery Shield is the absolute best item in its slot.

Depending on what it is that you're trying to achieve with your build, a few good alternatives are certainly available.

 

What alternatives do you see? I see 0 gold token shields I would consider as more effective or equally effective. The only other shield I may consider at blue token cost would be a parry shield. Again, if you are running a weird build, sure it may not work for you, but overall, I think its best in slot.

 

Well, considering that I don't always have a Gold orb to toss there, but for the sake or this point I'll assume I do...
Aegis Of The Defender is not bad at all depending on how you run things.

 

Just to name a few in the 1-major-token category: Aegis Of The Defender, Backflip Buckler, Bulky Shield, Crescent Shield, Frozen Shield, Jannivol's Shield, Shield Of Ultimate Dodging, Shield Of Vitality, Shield Of The Tumbler.

The fact you like Hard To Pin Down over any other block doesn't really mean it is the best block for everyone else too.

As I said, yes, it's an awesome card, but not to the point it's an automatic pic regardless of your your build.

But I guess the fact a few builds are very, very popular (meaning 90% of warriors are rigged with raw damage weapons + AoA + Hard to Pin Down) also means 90% of the players are leaning towards the same items.

 

I personally don't see a single scenario where I would ever run that over a slippery shield, or would view it as equivalent. I actually, personally, see that item as not worth a gold token for any multiplayer group I would run under any circumstance.
But, it may be an issue of you having a build you believe would benefit from it. I actually don't see a scenario where I would run that ever, even if I could spend 0 tokens as contrasted with a 0 token shield.

I would rather have a character that has the same block chance to completely negate an attack, with 3 of those abilities (hard to pin) who then gets a free move after.
I see no value in an equal die-to-block ability that is only on 2/3 cards, which gives no free move or extra card after, and will block things not even targeting the character.

 

Bandreus, can you identify MP scenarios where the items you listed would be equivalent or better than a slippery shield? I fail to see any scenarios where that would be the case.

I'll go item by item that you listed and explain why, and you tell me if I'm wrong. Fair?

 

Clearly you're not considering any class that can't use the shield then benefiting. Blocking for others can be very beneficial, just the same as the shield with three desperate blocks (forget the name) could be useful to a warrior stacking armor if he is only interested in blocking the heavy attacks from an opponent and not getting all his parries discarded due to small blocks. Aside from that, just because something may not be a perfect equal does not invalidate it's use as an alternative.

 

- Aegis, addressed above.

- Backflip Buckler: 1 acrobatic flip could arguably be seen as equivalent since you can move your opponent too, and yourself. Dodge is worse than hard to pin overall, imo, but for argument sake I will simply say that it is equal. Jarring Block is a 3+ block that gives you 2 damage, and grants no move or extra card. Backflip buckler, even if we assume the first 2 cards are equal, has an inferior third card.

- Bulky Shield doesn't require a long explanation. 4+ roll to block, only triggers on a 5 or more damage attack, does not grant movement or a card. Clearly inferior. It has some utility in blocking 5+ attacks, but, this is not in the same universe in terms of overall usefulness.

- Crescent Shield: Same thing as above. Slightly more useful since it has 1 hard to pin.

- Frozen shield: Icy Block is a very solid ability (2/3 cards on this item) BUT only triggers on 4+, grants no card, however, it does restrict your opponents movement (encumber 2, duration 2). I have the legendary version of this shield which has 3 icy blocks, but still would never use it over slippery shield. Last card has an inferior ability again.

- Jannivol's Shield: Same as backflip buckler, but worse; stuck arrow is an ability I view as a drawback in multiplayer. Sure, it blocks magic/projectile only on a 2+ roll, but it encumbers you for 2 turns at a 1 encumbrance.

- Shield of Ultimate Dodging: Frankly, I view dodge as inferior to hard to pin. Both give you utility. Dodge triggers on 4+ (negative). It is [keep] which is a positive. It allows you to move 2 as a move card, or when used reactively, you can move 1 and you don't take damage if you move out of the original range of the attack. However, if encumbered for example, you take damage. Or if you can't move out of the range. Also, you can't remain in the same spot and negate damage. I would always rather have hard to pins on an item than dodge.

- Shield of Vitality: Absorbing block is a solid ability (2/3 cards on this item). If you block a ranged attack, you heal 8. Requires a 3+ roll, and can still be triggered by melee, negating the heal (making it situationally useful). Flimsy block is pretty bad so won't get into that. Even if we equate absorbing block to hard to pin, you still only get 2/3 as much for your value. The only scenario I would use this item at all would be if I played 3 wizards all day, or draw deck firestorm teams constantly (and even then vs three wizards, I assume one of them is running cold and I'd rather have movement).

- Acrobatic flip is overvalued. Its only on 2/3 of the cards. Would you rather have 2 acrobatic flips, or 3 hard to pins? Clear answer to me. Maybe if you were running a dwarven, smoke bomb, turtling team with immovable you would want this item to hold the middle or something. But that seems a little absurd, and still I don't view it was better than simply having 3 slipperys.

I've gone through item by item to explain my rationale because I don't believe in simply stating general comments without backing them up, and I value item balance in a game like this.

Slippery Shield grants you an ability to
- Move 3 at will OR
- On a block of 3+ move 3, negate all of the damage.

That is an absurdly good ability. You get the ability to have utility (if you need a move, take a move of 3) and the ability to reactively block anything AND move 3, then take your next turn.

 

Andrew, I have considered that alternative. Specifically, you mean wizards. And so, I ask myself: would I rather my priest have a slippery shield, or the ability to situationally, possibly block an attack meant for my wizard, assuming I'm within range, and its an attack that I would want blocked. This assumes of course, that this ability isn't triggered prematurely by something random and so its available.

Wizards have means of avoiding attacks at their disposal (reactive teleport, teleport, etc AND control abilities).

 

Pre-emptive means (Tele and Winds) is not the same thing here, reactive defensive measures are the case. Furthermore, although it benefits a wizard the most, it can also help out any teammate that doesn't have a defensive trick up their sleeve (draw randomness can affect anyone). While it's true the card can be drawn out by something uncontrollably, that argument applies just as appropriately to Hard to Pin down in that you will use up the card.

 

I think you are alone on an island thinking that shield is equal to slippery. Also, wizards have active and reactive ways to avoid it as I referenced.

The difference with hard to pin being drawn out randomly or uncontrollably is that you still get to move after its drawn out, which is still an advantage.