Card drawing completely broken in PvP

I'd love to hear it ended with a touch of death for 58 damage.

 

Fair enough, thanks for posting the actual list. So it's an inspiration/altruism build for the most part. We had this broken in Beta before the Altruism fix. Those fixes made this a lot less likely to occur, but it's still possible. This can't really be a reliable deck, but it can still be a pain to play against.

I had proposed a more severe fix to altruism, prior to release (http://forums.cardhunter.com/threads/upcoming-balance-changes-2-sep-2013-altruism.3286/page-2), because I still thought it was too good. I still think Altruism is hands down the best trait.

 

Bandreus,

Thanks for the cool rundown on drawing decks.

One thing I am wondering, though: how is Forward Thinking a drawer? Shouldn't it be a cycler in your terminology? In that the card costs 1 card to play and you end up with only 1 extra card drawn (and it does not benefit from Altruism).

By the way, I agree that the pure draw decks are not all that powerful. But they're quite a waste of time for everyone involved.

 

You're definitely right Gentlecow, thanks for pointing this out. Not sure if a typo or just messing things up because of the sheer amount of cards listed xD

Forward Thinking indeed is a cycler. Although a very good one, since it lets you pick one card out of two. Will go back edit the post accordingly

EDIT: I fixed a couple things. Definitely give me a heads up if anything off is still there somewhere in the wall of text.

Also, as a minor addition, I listed Cleansing Ray as one more cycler. Although not a very reliable one (i.e. I would be surpriced to see the card in a drawer deck, but you never know).

 

Wow.

 

I was going to do my best to surprise him, and if it was ever going to happen I had the absolute perfect hand, but he actually got miraculously disconnected.

 

Not a surprise. He was suffering trait death on his first priest. That means he continually has to play a trait (altruism) and keeps redrawing it.

 

I was one of the testers of the infinite draw decks in beta and from our work we were able to get talented healer nerfed, altruism nerfed, leadership nerfed and inspiration nerfed. We also got martydom nerfed but that was with a different deck.

I put a copy of this deck together and played 6 games over the weekend. Not one of the games went infinite and not one game resulted in a first turn kill. You may think the deck is broken right now but I can tell you that it is nothing near what it was in beta. Pliers was able to beat me with the use of a couple frost spells which I failed to block at the right time. I didn't go up against anybody with a whirwind but that would have been the end as well.

I am not saying the deck is worthless, and it does have the potential to draw a lot of cards, but it is not an infinite draw. This is the dwarf version, I have not yet tried out the human version as I do not have 3 copies of the double leadership trait yet. Perhaps the human version really can go infinite.

 

If you would not mind sharing the decklist, I do have 3 Advanced Flexibility available and would be happy to see if I could build it and test. I may be missing some other key cards, though, I don't know.

 

There are two threads on this now. The other is called "Draw Decks Completely Broken", this is the list from that thread. You are going to need 9 demon charms of the 2nd circle if you want to test this out though.

Klinkaskree
Level 18 Dwarf Priest

White Halberd
Duality Mace
Inspirational Mail
Spellthwart Shield
Possessed Shoes
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Scuffed Relic
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Superb Ferocity
Focused Piety​

2 x Touch Of Death
1 x Cautious Sneak
2 x Polearm Slash
4 x Inspiration
1 x Draining Touch
1 x Bungled Heal
3 x Altruism
2 x Unholy Power
2 x Charge
1 x Shuffle
2 x Demonic Revenge
1 x Weak Chop
1 x Inspiring Presence
2 x Demonic Feedback
3 x Missile Block
1 x Cleansing Burst
1 x Lifesaving Block
2 x Impenetrable Nimbus
1 x Dwarven Battle Cry
1 x Chop
1 x Mail
1 x Immovable​

Khrumogri
Level 10 Dwarf Priest

White Halberd
White Halberd
Inspirational Mail
Spellthwart Shield
Spinning Top Boots
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Superb Ferocity
Focused Piety​

3 x Altruism
4 x Polearm Slash
6 x Inspiration
1 x Dwarven Battle Cry
2 x Spin Around
3 x Charge
3 x Demonic Revenge
2 x Weak Chop
2 x Draining Touch
3 x Demonic Feedback
3 x Missile Block
3 x Unholy Power
1 x Mail​

Uzkulogri
Level 1 Dwarf Priest

Aureate Mace
White Halberd
Inspirational Mail
Spellthwart Shield
Spinning Top Boots
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Superb Ferocity
Focused Piety​

3 x Altruism
2 x Polearm Slash
6 x Inspiration
1 x Draining Touch
2 x Spin Around
3 x Charge
3 x Demonic Revenge
2 x Bash
2 x Devastating Blow
3 x Demonic Feedback
3 x Missile Block
1 x Weak Chop
1 x Dwarven Battle Cry
3 x Unholy Power
1 x Mail​

 

Alright, thanks, I do not have that many demon charms (and I am also missing a few White Halberds and a couple of other cards). But if I keep a look out for them, I might be able to scrape them together after a while of resets, they're not that rare after all.

I also don't have more than 1 Spellthwart Shield, but that's really not important for the deck, I reckon. I have a Ricochet Buckler and a White Shield that can fill in in a pinch.

 

I noticed I forgot to mention Spin Around as a cycler in my post about the build :\

 

Gentlecow you are right you don't need to match that list 100%, the spellthwart shields are great if you actually want to win and beat a wizard setup, but they are not important for testing the draw engine. There are also some other weapons that have card draw on them that may be superior to what is listed.

 

Here's what I have at the moment (after spending a bunch of money in the shops):

Cardname -- Rarity -- Available?

Code:

Aureate Mace    C    Y
Inspirational Mail    C    Y
Inspirational Mail    C    Y
Inspirational Mail    C    Y
Possessed Shoes    C    Y
Spinning Top Boots    C    Y
Spinning Top Boots    C    Y
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle    U    Y
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle    U    Y
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle    U    Y
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle    U   
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle    U   
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle    U   
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle    U   
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle    U   
Duality Mace    U    Y
Advanced Flexibility    U    Y
Advanced Flexibility    U    Y
Advanced Flexibility    U    Y
Focused Piety    R    Y
Focused Piety    R    Y
Focused Piety    R   
Scuffed Relic    R   
Spellthwart Shield    R    Y
Spellthwart Shield    R   
Spellthwart Shield    R   
White Halberd    R    Y
White Halberd    R    Y
White Halberd    R   
White Halberd    R    

As is obvious, I am missing too many cards to have a real working option. But I will keep looking and any suggestions for possible replacements are welcome.

 

I don't understand the danger of these decks. How can near infinite draw be a threat if they only draw cards that feed the cycle? The dwarves eat time on the clock and hurt themselves while the enemy sits on the victory squares.

 

Not sure why you can't go infinite with the deck. I put together a similar one (somewhat better weapons but missing a focused piety) and if you focus on drawing one character you can pretty reliably go infinite turn 2. The altruism nerf does not do much. One of your clerics will have it up pretty much all the time and you just feed unholy draws to that one. The draw values (meaning all draws minus the number of cards in deck) of my chars are at -3, -4,-4. Given that you draw 4 cards for free per char, this deck should pretty reliably go infinite.



Grikbrog
Level 20 Dwarf Priest

Godtouched Spear
Malign Mace
Inspirational Mail
Acrobat's Aegis
Spinning Top Boots
Jygpin's Healing Ring
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Advanced Ferocity
Focused Piety
​

1 x Dwarven Battle Cry
1 x Powerful Bludgeon
1 x Acrobatic Flip
2 x Inspiration
1 x Mail
1 x Bludgeon
1 x Blind Rage
1 x Penetrating Lunge
1 x Simple Strike
1 x Light Heal
3 x Team Heal
1 x War Cry
1 x Traveling Curse
1 x Strong Bludgeon
1 x Charge
2 x Spin Around
2 x Inspiring Presence
3 x Altruism
2 x Demonic Revenge
1 x Righteous Frenzy
1 x Potent Stab
3 x Demonic Feedback
1 x Absorbing Block
2 x Unholy Power
1 x Puncturing Stab
​

Zakghal
Level 18 Dwarf Priest

Aureate Mace
Duality Mace
Inspirational Mail
Cold Shield
Spinning Top Boots
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Perfect Ferocity
Focused Piety
​

1 x Dropped Guard
1 x Frenzy Aura
4 x Inspiration
1 x Charge
2 x Spin Around
1 x Icy Block
2 x Touch Of Death
1 x Hit The Deck
3 x Demonic Feedback
2 x Impenetrable Nimbus
1 x Mail
2 x Devastating Blow
2 x Bash
1 x Chop
1 x Lifesaving Block
3 x Demonic Revenge
1 x Dwarven Battle Cry
3 x Unholy Power
3 x Altruism
1 x Blind Rage
​

Loklid
Level 18 Dwarf Priest

Aureate Mace
Duality Mace
Inspirational Mail
Acrobat's Aegis
Spinning Top Boots
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Demon Charm Of The 2nd Circle
Perfect Ferocity
Novice Piety
​

1 x Dwarven Battle Cry
1 x Minor Heal
1 x Frenzy Aura
1 x Traveling Curse
4 x Inspiration
1 x Charge
2 x Spin Around
2 x Devastating Blow
2 x Touch Of Death
1 x Chop
1 x Acrobatic Flip
3 x Demonic Feedback
2 x Impenetrable Nimbus
1 x Mail
2 x Bash
1 x Lifesaving Block
3 x Demonic Revenge
3 x Unholy Power
2 x Altruism
1 x Blind Rage
1 x Absorbing Block
​

 

You draw the whole deck in a single turn. Then you use Charge from the boots to move your dwarves around the map. Since your deck is empty you redraw charge (and a few traits) immediately when you play one of your many card drawers. Kill the enemies with your devastating blows, while keeping your deck fully drawn. Impenetrable nimbus keeps them invulnerable. Purge is not an answer, since you can just recast and redraw it.

 

There's another thing about clock, unless you skip the animation and pass immediately, the clock is ticking on you when their animation plays. If you are not aware of animation skipping, they could come out ahead of you in clock time.

 

Can this be countered by Martyr's blessing or Divine Nimbus? I feel like a warrior with Martyr's blessing drawing high damaging cards every time someone charged into him would be able to outlast the clerics.

 

Are there any cards that that I might not be aware of that would operate like War Cry, but would cause a whole subset of the chain to collapse? Pepper them with Counterspells or something? Or maybe carry a ton of Entangling Roots? If they're just using charge to get around, then they're not going to be doing that if they're rooted and just stewing in their own curses. I suppose separating them first would be a good plan, since you can't buff who you can't see. I guess they could just push the roots right off of themselves though by buffing and cursing some more. :/