What cards are breaking the bank?

Well in many ways the mage/priest decks are already capable of doing just that. If you're running enough enchantment effects, and the different fire spells each count as a unique attachment, you can simply push the encumber effects off your characters.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about and realization has already occurred. XD

If you're willing to sacrifice your own attack card -and- your own character's health to defeat one Frost attachment, well then that actually seems fair. Right now Fire is actually somewhat mediocre outside of Fireball - it doesn't have great damage, it doesn't slow you down or protect the Fire wizard in any way, it doesn't have any Hard to Block advantage, etc...

What this change would mean is that those super tiny Fire cones actually have some utility now other than walking your wizard into stabbing range. I think Fire actually could use that little buff specifically for Ember Spray, Fire Spray and Burning Fingers as you have to get so close to use them. It would mostly weaken the Fire/Frost combo (but not totally as you could still Hot Spot somebody as they'd just lose an encumber after, or you could just rotate targets) and encourage other magical pairings, like Frost/Acid.

It would mean Frost gets to keep all of its power but now you would have to account for the possibility of the enemy sacrificing Fire attack cards trying to counter you. There is already precedent for this possible use of Fire in that you can already do this : If your warrior gets hit by Freeze for example, you can light him up with fire attacks to eventually clear off the encumber. It's just that right now you're paying a very, very heavy price to use this technique (up to 3 attack cards and potentially a lot of self-inflicted damage).

I know it's a really different idea but I have considered that it would increase player options and make Encumber very useful (but perhaps now balanced) as it still demands a counter, but now you actually could reliably counter it if you had the cards and were willing to burn your own characters.

 

I have no issues getting utility out of the fire cones so long as I use Unholy Wellspring. Suddenly they are a better version of a chop (it's easier to line it up to hit multiple targets and it has stab range). Put simply I don't think wizards need to get better, so I don't want to see an encumber fix end up in the same class that causes the issue. That just means we see even more wizards.

I wasn't sure about Unholy Wellspring being a problem, but it also pushed firestorm from being merely a nuisance to being a top tier strategy.

IMO, melee doesn't get as warped by damage boosts because there are already so many answers to melee attacks. However, wizard spells don't have the same restrictions as melee attacks. Firestorm doesn't require LOS and hit everyone, Fireball doesn't require LOS and hits multiple targets at range, Cone of Frost hits multiple targets at range, Flash of Pain hits multiple target at range, etc... These spells aren't an issue until you add unholy wellspring, and than they are much easier to abuse for a lot of damage.

 

I think fire magic is a sleeping giant of damage potential that most people are just discounting since it requires risk and patience to take full advantage(outside of course the exception, fireball, because everyone either loves/hates fireball and it takes zero risk and zero patience). fire also has high synergy with other wizard spells and decks. common fire cards actually have some of the highest potential for damage increases in the game. I say that because the sprays although low damage and short range they do burn twice and they can hit multiple opponents.

Ex:
Ember Spray does 1 damage, burns for 1 and last 2 turns. 3 max damage to single character.
Now add in a Firestarter 7 max damage to a single character.
Buff with Unholy Wellspring 7 max damage w/o Firestarter and 14 max damage w/ it.
Hit 2 characters w/ two above traits and thats 28 max damage.
Hit 3 characters w/ two above traits and thats 42 max damage. . . in a very lucky ideal almost impossible situation you are doing potentailly 14 * the maximum base damage of the spell hitting one target. that's 1400% increase.

compared with a Fireball
basic: 6 damage max
w/firestarter: 8 damage
unholy: 10 damage
unholy w/ firestarter: 12 damage
unholy w/ firestarter 2 character: 24 damage
unholy w/ firestarter 3 characters: 36 damage
much(emphasis MUCH) easier to pull off but less top end potential with only 5 * the maximum base or a 500% increase.

In no way am I arguing that fireball sucks and ember spray is better especially considering fireball is just that much easier to setup and take advantage of. I'm just saying I have a fire/acid/wind-o-war(acid to melt armor and winds for control/position) with only 2 fireballs in her deck and she does pretty nice so far and those weak fire spells are cheap to include in the deck and offer a lot of potential. Potential that isn't limited to damage but also with it's ability to debuff your opponents by bumping off their useful attachments; fire becomes all that more appealing from a strategic perspective for those of us who just like to watch the world burn.

 

Remember, if your wizard died, Firestarter/Kindler will no longer have any effect. The card must be present in the field (on your character) at the time of burning for it to take effect.

In any kind of game, damage over time is valued less than direct damage because of 1 main reason: Give enemy more option since he can live longer. He can heal up, he can beat you up, he can dispel the effect etc... Because of that, naturally DoT will always do more damage.

 

For certain DoT affects have their disadvantage and take some planning to capitalize on, hence why a fire mage requires a certain amount of patience and risk. My main point was not that fire damage is better than other magic but rather people shouldn't dismiss it so easily in it's current form. So I wanted to show that even the worst fire spell can become a monster source of damage with the right buffs and used in the right circumstances; even out damaging the best fire spell w/ similar buffs in similar circumstances.

I had a limited understanding of the wording on those cards but now they seem even more interesting despite that limitation. To me this means that the character with Firestarter/Kindler doesn't have to be the original source of the burning, which at first is what I assumed. So a warrior throwing out fiery stabs is actually buffed by a wizard with Kindler attached?

 

You have an odd concept of 'better'. Sure it has the potential to deal more damage... but the situations that allow for this are highly unlikely. Try getting a fire cone on more than one of my characters in any of my builds and you'll find it disappointing.

 

I would not be disappointed because I respond to how my opponent plays and enjoy the game by playing the game, not winning the game. Also when and if I use my cards depends entirely on the situation for each turn. You might be the one disappointed when you find lady luck has not smiled on your draws and half your party is engulfed in flames. . . and more flames. . . and more flames. . . don't worry I'll pass now too so we can both watch your team burn.

I'm not sure why you find my concept of 'better' to be odd because I haven't shared with you what my concept of 'better' actually is, only what it is not. I specifically state I am not arguing fire is better than any other magic even with greater damage potential and I specifically state that I am not arguing the worst fire spell is better than the best fire spell. Maybe more emphasis with bold helps?

 

The wizard has to be the source. What I mean is that when a burn card start burning, it will check the owner of the card. Then check if Kindle/Firestarter is attached on that owner, then increase the damage. If any of that fail, damage fall back to normal. If you want burning sword to do more damage, you need to pass Kindler buff or Kindler card on to your warrior. (Battlefield Training)

 

Hey, Tasmanian Devil your math seems off, unless I missed something the math plays out like this:


Ember Spray = Damage (1base)+(1burning)+(1burning)=3 damage.
Ember Spray + Firestarter = Damage (1)+(1+2)+(1+2)=7 damage.
Ember Spray + Unholy Well = Damage (1+4)+(1)+(1)=7damage.
Ember Spray + Unholy Well + Firestarter = Damage (1+4)+(1+2)+(1+2)=11 damage.
All of this times the number of targets, which is at most 8, for a total possible 88 damage. When I value a card or strategy I look at the applications for single player, as well as multi-player.

Fireball = Damage (4base)+(2burning)=6 damage.
Fireball +Firestarter = Damage (4)+(2+2)=8 damage.
Fireball + Unholy Well = Damage (4+4)+(2)=10 damage.
Fireball + Unholy Well +Firestarter = (4+4)+(2+2)=12 damage.
All of this times the number of targets, which is at most 25, for a total possible damage of 300 damage.

Also, if you look at these numbers you will realize that Firestorm has the highest possible damage available from a single card (Volcano similarly can result in the highest damage output from a single card, but that damage would be indirect). If you are considering that they can be used against virtually unlimited enemies.

This is impossible. If Kindler is in hand it has to be played before Battlefield Training...

However, it would be possible with Redistribute, which is currently unavailable on any items.

 

The warrior can use BT to give Fiery Stab to the wizard.

 

Thank you, I forget about that. There isn't any more effect that shuffle some cards into someone else's deck save for that one curse.

 

Ah you are right, I failed at math.

Thank you, for some reason when I went back and read the card, "whenever a burning card you control", I assumed the 'you' meant the player instead of character.

That does answer my other question though regarding if burning cards attached before firestarter/kindler is drawn are boosted at the beginning of next turn.

Back to topic at hand after change to leadership my vote for breaking the bank goes to Unholy Well; that's what turns all the pathetically low damage attacks into good attacks. But I'm on the fence on whether it is actually broken or not.

 

So Unholy Wellspring is going to +3 damage, and fireball, as we know it at least, is changing quite a bit.

http://www.cardhunter.com/forum/threads/upcoming-balance-changes-7-august-2013.2984/

 

Reference back to the lava tile discussion: Don't forget that Fog of War is also a counter to field effects. And one not too hard to keep in your hand and hidden. Fog of war is also a great way to move through difficult terrain in one turn.

 

... do you mean, Smoke Bomb?

 

Oops, that I did. Very effective for terrain removal, as long as you don't rely on terrain effects yourself. Because just like Fireball, the range is enhanced by the burst, as well as being able to hit non-LOS tiles.

 

Main card i see now being used that seems a little too effective is Talented Healer. Load up on loads of healing cards and it is very hard to kill a character faster than it can be healed. Maybe this needs to go back to a 4+ again?

 

Personally I think Whirlwind Enemies is having the largest effect on my games.

There are generally 3 scenarios where it is played:

• Start of the game after one player has passed and the other has used their moves. This often results in the enemy being spread around the board with possibly having no further moves while allowing the casting player to attack/position based on the new positions of the enemy. This often gives them a great advantage and can easily result in the killing of one character.

• Middle of the game when one player is positioned on the victory squares. This can either be a way to clear out the enemy from the victory condition while you continue your approach or rebuff the enemies attempt to approach the victory squares you currently occupy.

• Panic button when a warrior has gotten too close to your squishes. This can save one or more of your characters should things be going sideways.

There is, of course, a chance in all of these cases of it backfiring somewhat by putting one or more characters of theirs next to/in sight of your valuable/vulnerable characters. This danger is mitigated by having your team together and only casting it when you have additional moves to use.
My problem with it isn't the use of it, but rather the card itself due to the fact that it effectively undoes any strategy. Games often, but not always, comes down to the first team that pulls one wins. Yes, there are some counters to it, but my argument is that it's good against any team comp, nearly any deck composition, and it nullifies tactical play of the opponent reducing the game outcome to be largely based on random chance while being highly biased to one team.
A site note: I have similar problems with whirlwind and it's effect on a game. I often see it cast then the game is decided in the favor of the caster, or they resign immediately. Certainly doesn't make for a fun game.

 

I just got beaten by a very nice use of Whirlwind Enemies in the endgame, but I find WW causes problems for the caster at least as often as it solves them. (This is particularly the case if the opponent is careful not to spend all his movement cards needlessly.) Yes, it can be annoying, but I don't think it's game-breaking, and I don't think it will be a major part of many high-level decks.