(Question) Opinions on Temple of Terror Map 3 ?

Thanks for the nudge, folks; I've tried a couple different tricks and come up dry, but maybe I'll overhaul my decks a little more aggressively and see if I can't get traction.

 

Let's all be excellent to each other, shall we?

 

I think the monkeys should get some cards that move them from their current "uberwarrior" status (with superb blocks, superb moves, good attacks, high hp and armor) to "silly monkey" status. Add a few Fumble, a few Fright and maybe a few Trip and it should be a lot more enjoyable to play vs them without reducing their power level all that much.

 

I actually like that idea a lot - even a single card like that would improve the feel of those fights imho, even if they didn't do much to the difficulty level.

 

So i just got to this map and got to see it after the change and i agree it could do with one less monkey.

 

Maybe it just needs to come later in the campaign? Honestly, this map had me hopping mad the first time(s) I played it. When I played it again last week, it seemed... not that hard (as in I beat it on the first try with no deaths).

In the interim, I had been playing a good amount of MP, and also shelled out for the treasure hunts. Sure, my equipment probably improved a little as a result, but I think the bigger difference was in tactics. That leads me to believe that the challenge level is probably appropriate (e.g., aggravating, but not unwinnable).

I don't mind the idea of a "stupid monkey" drawback, though. Triggering Acrobatic Flip, Simian Reflexes, and Monkey Mail all in the same turn definitely makes the monkeys seem like the top of the food chain in Cardhuntria.

 

I am in exactly the same situation, and I'd say pretty much the same. Seeing five of the things was unpleasant.

However . . . wow, I had a really fun time on that map. It was remarkable.

I've commented before that I seem to use mobility more than other people, and "I outmaneuver monkeys." That's what I did. I just outmaneuvered five monkey minions, a monkey boss, and that psycho Hell Mantis. I've never had a gaming experience like that.

I used my "keepaway" team. Two Wizards (Elf and Human) and a Priest (Elf), all at level 16 (the level of the adventure). The strategy: repeated Elvish Insight so I could know their Moves and Blocks--and hey, if they Ducked my Elvish Insight, then that still meant I flushed a Duck. (Cue Duck Hunt flashbacks.) Some cards from my (very) small stock of the following: Cold spells, Path Of Knives, and of course Whirlwind Enemies, plus more common enemy-pushing spells. Wall Of Stone to keep enemies beyond the bridge, and Acid Blast to get rid of Monkey Mail. My Priest was on Healing duty and, rarely, engaged in melee. Melee emphasized Bash, Barge, and Parry (including from the Wizards).

Very very fun and I beat it without a loss. But that's just me. It was incredibly hectic, and I would not argue against removing one monkey, or adding an amusing drawback card to monkey decks.

 

Sorry to double-post, but I had a thought about the "silly monkey" idea. Suppose they specifically made a Silly Monkey drawback, and put it in minion decks. Not boss decks, because the boss should be awesome. What would it be?

Well, generally they shouldn't duplicate other drawbacks. And so they shouldn't use up something they might want to give the player later. Hey . . . the Energize card has an image of a monkey warrior. What if:

Silly Monkey
Handicap
Trait. Lose your action point for this round.

. . . Hey? Hey? I'd love to see those "silly monkeys" become distracted by, say, bananas, and forget to pick my pocket this round. They could run around all they wanted, Block my Attacks, Duck my cards, move me with an Acrobatic Flip, and generally be "silly" . . . but if they didn't kill me so quickly then I (or a new player) would have more time to figure out how to kill them.

 

First, this isn't something a player could use, and it's basically the same thing as Fright.

 

Similar result yes basically the same thing no.

 

First: exactly. That is literally my point. By having this ability, they would do something with a mechanic defined as "not for the players." This action point mechanic, after all, is utilized only by Energize so far, and the urge to "fully explore" a game's mechanics is a fundamental part of game design.

Second: that's not Fright. Again, see first point. Also see Energize, and see all the non-Attack cards which a monkey could steal due to Duck (like Telekinesis).

 

Just a quick note that it's tons of fun to have monkeys Ducking Firestorms, and then killing themselves using it.

 

I'm still not a huge fan of this map. I've beaten it, but I still can't say I enjoy it or think it flows well with other campaigns. I'm not even sure why I think that. I had no problem with slimes being immune to crushing, or skeletons being immune to poking or any number of other creatures that require specific responses. There's just something about the monkeys that feel . . . bleh. I also feel that many of the most efficient ways of dealing with them feel cheesy. Firestorm is extremely powerful, not just because of the "Duck" trick (which works, and probably shouldn't), but because it wastes blocks and such. Terrian effects are very powerful - but mostly because the AI handles them poorly. I found Dwarves significantly more powerful here, mostly because trying to move much is a waste of time given the openness of the map - the hit points were far more valuable.

I wish I had more clever suggestions to offer, but really, something just feels "off" about the monkeys. They remain my least favorite opponent - and not because I can't beat them, but more because I just don't enjoy beating them.

Do continue to love the game though. Handed out all my 'bonus keys' and even bought a little Pizza to support the cause. Keep it coming!

 

One question:

How do you normally deal with Blocking enemies? Do you try to "flush" the cards with area-of-effect abilities, Cone Attacks, Chops, and so on? Because aside from things like "getting behind the enemy," I take this as normal for anti-Block strategy.

As to the rest, I certainly can't argue against you for disliking the monkeys. I find a lot of Block-heavy fights, like some Goblin maps, to be not terribly fun.

 

Really? I love goblins because they're so much easier than the levels around them. The thing about monkeys is that they not only block your cards, but they steal them and use them against you. Luckily you don't have to finish Temple of Terror to unlock quests.

 

Ah, I was hoping not to overlap with a different thread (i.e.), but I was referring to Tree Forts of the Goblin King, level 12. Some people find "Blocks" to be "the one thing that stops them," like in The Compass of Xorr or in the first map of this module, so I pulled it out as a method for finding common ground.

But then I use the level 6 Goblin adventures for looting Treasure.

 

I didn't have any Firestorm or Fireball when I did those levels, so I couldn't make them spend their blocks en mass like that. My main method of getting past their blocks was to damage them with Hot Spot and Acid Spray. But also, I try to position my character such that if a monkey attacks one of them, I can hit that monkey's back with one of my others.

In general I didn't mind the block-heavy maps. There were times where it felt a bit chancy, in the sense that an (un)lucky set of block rolls could be the difference between winning and losing. But apart from that, I thought it was just another interesting and somewhat unique challenge to overcome - which is good. We have to beat the blocking team, just as we had to beat the armour team, and the sparking team, and so on - and I like that different sets of enemies require different tactics.

 

Let this stand as the day that someone OTHER THAN ME said those words for the umpteenth time.

Time to rest my hat. Or maybe that's my lungs.

 

Finally beat this tonight, first try (with this build) and no party deaths. My new motto: "When in doubt, use Impenetrable Nimbus"; I don't think the AI has ever won when I've used that card. I did try the strategy "put priest and warrior in opposite corners, use wizard to turn monkeys", but my wizard was really bad at that and the monkeys ignored my priest. Oh well, my wizard was very good at other things, and the Impenetrable Nimbus + frenzy combo continues to exploit the &^*& out of the AI' s stupidity. Losing my Fireballs will make this harder, but I think I still would've won.

Full build: (I should try it in MP to see how it holds up against non-idiots)
Esammae
Level 17 Elf Warrior

Simple Axe​

Powerful Sword​

Nifty Halberd​

Cuirass Of Froth​

Rusty Buckler​

Weakling's Helm​

Power Boots​

Apprentice Evasion​

Frenzied Slicing​

​

3 x Frenzy Aura​

4 x Chop​

2 x Nimble Strike​

2 x Parry​

3 x Weak Chop​

1 x Ill-fitting Armor​

1 x Charge​

1 x Stab​

3 x Powerful Hack​

1 x Vulnerable​

1 x Elvish Mobility​

1 x Wimpy​

1 x Hardy Mail​

1 x Reliable Mail​

1 x Puncturing Stab​

1 x Able Bludgeon​

1 x Dash​

1 x Potent Stab​

2 x Strong Chop​

1 x Dodge​

2 x Slicer​

1 x Muscle Through​

1 x Sprint​

​

Amthien
Level 17 Elf Wizard

Pearwood Staff​

Staff Of Fireballs​

Burning Bangle​

Burning Bangle​

Blister Stone​

Crisping Rod​

Bloodfoot Robes​

Scrap-heap Boots​

Untrained Insight​

Fireblinker Initiate​

​

1 x Cowardly​

1 x Frost Jolt​

2 x Path Of Knives​

1 x Cautious Sneak​

1 x Counterspell​

5 x Hot Spot​

1 x Arcane Aura​

1 x Acid Jet​

3 x Wall Of Fire​

1 x Firestarter​

6 x Fireball​

1 x Burning Fingers​

1 x Mighty Spark​

2 x Walk​

2 x Ember Spray​

1 x Fright​

2 x Winds Of War​

1 x Dodge​

1 x Mail​

1 x Dimensional Traveller​

1 x Fire Spray​

​

Amalias
Level 17 Elf Priest

Dark Drewg's Mace​

Healing Hand Mace​

Hide Of The Frenzied​

Heavy Dueler's Shield​

Crazy Fast Boots​

Shielding Token​

St. Bethan's Charm​

Twilight Talisman​

Apprentice Evasion​

Advanced Piety​

​

1 x Thick Hide Armor​

1 x Trip​

4 x Team Heal​

2 x Altruism​

2 x Help The Weak​

3 x Impenetrable Nimbus​

1 x Mass Frenzy​

1 x Simple Bash​

2 x Parry​

2 x Unholy Frenzy​

2 x Strong Bash​

1 x Consuming Touch​

1 x Vulnerable​

1 x Greater Heal​

2 x Strong Hack​

1 x Able Bludgeon​

1 x Dash​

1 x Elvish Mobility​

2 x Sprint​

1 x Soothing Darkness​

2 x Strong Bludgeon​

2 x Righteous Frenzy​

​

Another bit of advice: finish the rest of the campaign first. That way, if you need to grind for items, you can grind quests.