I've been wondering about this: why are there so specific items in the game? Why not create items with a randomized set of cards? (number of cards per item would stay the same as now of course.) the cards do have their Rarity and Quality. Chests and Shops could just generate entirely random items based on some probabilities that take these into consideration. Their names could also come assembled randomly from a large set of words. This would make each item feel more unique. So why not? I guess the main issue is "balance". However, I am still not entirely convinced about that "balance" exists in this game at all in this sense, if sooner or later, you can become equipped with already existing Legendary cards of your choice anyway, which are already so strong that no random cards could possibly be stronger. What do you think?
This would make deckbuilding and balancing a complete chore While items could be certainly put in a scale and balanced like this, there are certain items that are too good in combination with certain other items, or are just too good in large quantities. Bash is an average card, but Hammer Of Bashing costs GG because of how strong Bash is in numbers. Similarly, this changes the whole notion of tokens. Also, legendaries do not mean power. Epic and Legendary items are very consistent, but not needed for a powerful deck. Some uncommon and even common items consistently see play due to their good cardbase, and i rarely use my legendaries because, while appealing, the ones i have don't have power but versatility, and that makes them hard to fit into decks. Sure some cards like Vibrant Pain and The Hackmaster sound very appealing, but even then, they are one trick ponies
Well I dunno, there could be a well written algorithm to it that balances it. It can easily take tokens into consideration too. Tokens seem to be closely related to the item's level as well. I mean, the designers probably already use such algorithms when deciding what level, rarity etc an item should be. They can also keep control if for example they say, one item can't have more than one Fantastic (7/7) Quality card in it. This is already as much limit as you get. Let's also say Fantastic quality cards can only appear in Legendary weapons. Let me try to describe a very hasty example that is by no means what the random method could be with more thought put into it. say let's use the Quality points as a measure (1-7). A level 1 weapon distributes 12 points among the cards (say 3/3/2/2/1/1) add 1 point for each level. so a level 18 weapon would distribute 29 points. (no more than one Fantastic quality!) a common weapon uses only Common cards. an uncommon weapon uses 2-4 Uncommon cards. each additional UC (above 2) reduces the quality points limit by 1. a rare weapon would also include a few rare cards, reducing the points for even more Rare cards. an epic weapon would have more UC/R and less C a legendary would have even more UC/R and even less C. of course you would have to limit the card base too: Warrior weapons will not have Heals or Skills on them, etc. You may as well modify the total by -1 if it has duplicate cards in the item, or something, because it's that good. So the random generator would roll, for example a level 12 weapon, which is 23 points. Let's say it's Rare. Then it randomizes 2 R 1 UC 3 C cards in it, accurately reducing the quality points by idk, 2 for the additional R. Let's say no duplicate cards, so no further reduction. The 21 points are randomized into 6 cards like this: 2/2/3/4/5/5 with randomly assigned rarities like C/R/U/C/R/C so that after assigning corresponding random cards this weapon would look something like - C2 Weak Chop - R2 Blind Rage - U3 Tricky Stab - C4 Able Bash - R5 Violent Spin - C5 Mighty Hack with a random name (the algorithm can take into consideration the cards in the item, ie that it has hack-stab-chop cards so it's an "Axe", rage and spin so it's "Berserker's" etc) like Polished Berserker's Axe. There! It would probably be better if the weapon type (like Axe, Hammer etc) would be randomized first, so that the attack types could be chosen (mostly) accordingly, like Chop, Bash, Penetrating etc, which would help you to combo the weapon with the Skill a lot.
That sounds like making the game more complex for the sake of making it complex. There are already some items that have all these really strange, haphazardous combination of skills, and they look really uninteresting. You also have to take into account the ammount of images needed, and sorting through a collection of all random items would be infernal
One advantage of the current system is that it allows people to more easily describe and discuss builds and items with each other, for example by listing the names of the items they are using and linking to pages that describe those items. Another advantages is that it allows items to be named and drawn in a way that is consistent with a rough theme associated with the item. For example, Wand Of Seared Air has a fitting name for an item that provides a wind card and two fire cards. That kind of consistency would almost certainly be lost in a randomised system.
Additionally, a random item with a lucky set of cards will inspire more people to just hopelessly grind for a rare item with an even rarer card combination. There will be no equivalence between two people with the same items or even number of items of a given rarity. I equate it by attempting to play a game of pool, but every ball on the table is a ball of random size and shape. While skill would still be needed, it could be made trivial by the ball selection of you, or your opponent.
well, just for argument's sake - because it seems apparent that everyone prefers it the way the game handles it now - Well the user would not notice anything about this, except that there are no 2 items that are the same. idk, as for me, it was a bit of a let down for me, to realize this was not the case to begin with. (nothing serious tho, I do like it the way it is too, it was just a first impresson.) There would be many uninteresting combinations, for sure, but probably many interesting ones as well. As for the images, it might be made out to be, idk, some mark for every type of card, like if it has fire, than its general color should be red, if it also has block, there is a green line on its handle, etc etc. marks and colors could complete out the already numerous base images. Sorting your collection is already a hassle, if you only look at the All Items section, it doesn't matter much that there are 2 or 3 of some of the items. That's what the sorting options are for. The text search is a really great help for that! It is already not so much about the items, but the cards that they have. Describing a build like "I use lots of Encumber and Fire traps" helps probably even more than saying "I use exactly these items" because it is unlikely that anyone else will be able to acquire the exact same items that you did. It is actually more helpful to describe strategies with cards rather than items. Naming could also remain consistent, if the naming method took into consideration the cards the item has, or vice versa, the name is randomized first and then cards are chosen accordingly. Isn't that what is going on already though? Grinding for Legendary items? questioning the fairness of playing field, if all you have are some Rares while the opponent kicks your ass with some Fantastic quality cards he acquired through grind or luck or spending a lot on epic chests? It is the same, I say. Skill is needed, but the ball selection is not equal. Eventually there will be people who have Legendary items in all spots. If they try to justify it to someone less lucky by saying "well you have a chance to find all these, sooner or later, too" is not at all more helpful than saying "you might get Items with the same, or even better random combinations sooner or later, too." Please note that I'm arguing only for the theory, I don't have anything really against the current system.
The issue is though, that there will be combinations that there are no better combinations. You're no longer grinding for an item, your grinding for a specific set of cards on a specific type of item. People will be disappointed even when they finally GET the item because it will be with something they don't want. It almost exponentially draws out the number of attempts needed to get something specific -- which is something I already find problematic with the game actually. It's great to get all these different items, but it's hard to build different decks around mechanics unless you can get the right items.
The core of the problem in Diablo 3 was the auction house, not the random items. Random items worked fine in Diablo 2.
Actually if the items had not been completely random players would not have felt the auction house necessary, and if you had even played diablo 2 at all you would know the items were in fact not random ala diablo 3. They had set stats with random variables between certain percentages and number. Diablo 3 had entirely random stats with at times no pre set variables between what those stats could be. Diablo 2 had all items with set stats with set variables between those stats diablo 3, only legendary equipment guaranteed certain stats and even then had some completely variable stat you couldn't guarantee with variables you couldn't guarantee. Diablo 2 random was nothing like diablo 3 random. It was proven players liked diablo 2's fixed random, but hated 3's completely random, because they were now on the hunt for items with the specific desired stats, and that any items that had a dead stat were useless. Where as diablo 2 had items that while the stat was not as good as a top end version of the item it still had good stats in all the stats you desired. When people blame diablo 3s auction house they miss the point that the auction house was vital because of how items were builtto be too random, not it's mere existance.
Dude. Lets recap here. You said that Diablo 3 "proved" that random items are not well accepted, and I responded by saying that random items were well accepted in Diablo 2. And now you're suggesting that I've never played Diablo 2, because Diablo 2 uses a different kind of randomness to Diablo 3. Give me a break. You can't seriously tell me that rare items in Diablo 2 are not a similar concept to what is being discussed in this thread. Those items have a random number of random traits with random values within some range for each trait. That's pretty random. But more to the point, the random selection of traits in those items is analogous to having a random set of cards attached to an item in Card Hunter. Diablo 2 was (even still is) a very popular game, and these randomized items are a significant part of the game. I think it's silly to suggest that Diablo 3 "proved" that the randomness we're discussing here for Card Hunter is a bad idea. And just to be clear, I actually don't think Card Hunter should have these kinds of random items. I'm just saying that Diablo 3 didn't prove anything on this topic.
No dude I'm not going to give you a break if you want to say diablo 2 itemization=diablo 3 itemization because you are completely, entirely and provably wrong. Diablo 3 proved complete item randomization in a loot hunt game is a bad idea. Because then you aren't hunting for loot you are hunting for "stats" in this case cards. In diablo 3 main stat vitality and crit were three core stats you were hunting for. You stopped looking for items and instead looked only for stats. In diablo 2 you were legitimately seeking out items that were guaranteed specific stats with a specific range of those stats far more then coming across completely random stats all the time creating a need for the ah ie diablo 3. And if I were truly wrong diablo 3 wouldn't be scrambling to make the stats on each item significantly less random. Diablo 2 itemization is not diablo 3 itemization. To even suggest the two levels of itemization are the same is ludicrous at best. Could this game benefit from "some" randomization on loot. Perhaps. But complete randomization ala diablo 3 is provably a flawed concept because people will then shoot for certain stats ie in comparison to CH certain cards. Don't get me wrong diablo 3 was a fun game, but a fun loot hunt not so much. Diablo 3 did prove complete random was bad, and there are more then enough discussions to prove why. It makes some item ridiculously useless, and makes other items ridiculously godly, and there becomes only room for ridiculously godly in your setup. You can't experiment with anything less because there is no room for anything less which is why complete random fails to work. It leaves only room for the best stats. Diablo 2 was not the complete random diablo 3 was.
I have not said that Diablo 2 is similar to Diablo 3, nor made any kind of comparison between those two games. All I've said was that Diablo 2 had items that were randomized in an analogous way to what is being suggested for Card Hunter in this thread, and that the randomization in Diablo 2 was not a problem - and therefore Diablo 3 cannot have "proved" that such randomization would be bad for this game.
D3=entirely random. D2=Not entirely random only partial elements of randomness. Using a model similar to D3 most players would eventually try to have the most powerful pieces of gear possible without the downsides to hold it back. Ie in D3 people had straight up main stat vitality crit and attack speed. Other add ons were sometimes useful but without those 3 stats the item was useless. Meaning unless the card you got on the item was purely part of your build you would always be shooting for the better card and it would make a vast majority of gear completely and utterly useless. There would be no such thing as trade offs, you would always be shooting for the best with any lack of drawbacks. Games like these demand for certain set values ie non random to keep checks and balances in place for gear. Allow a gear piece to have literally anything and then you end up with only the truly godly gear ever being used without anything to keep the power in check. Ie let's assume with this system you could have a staff with 6 volcanos and no power token requirements. Obviously it would be a legendary but there would never be a reason not to use that staff. You would in fact view all other gear you find as useless by comparison so you only hunt for the best. Meaning that some lucky player out there will always devastate not so lucky players because they will have completely unhindered power. Aka the situation with diablo 3 and why the AH feels vital. You need those specific stats to stay competitive. Having things not random keeps things in check.
yeah well that is not at all what I meant, if you look above you can see how I described a certain guided randomization method. probably the topic title is misleading by saying "entirely random", well what I really meant is, randomized with a clever system that takes many things into consideration, like how you must use tokens for high level items and whatnot.
Its a very cool idea so don't get too discuraged by all the no votes but in the end i have to agree that the single benefit of loot being more random and cool doesn't outweight the 5+ reasons not to have it. So cool idea props for being the first to suggest it as far as i can see but ultimately no.
...nothing. D3 shouldn't really come into play here since it is only slightly relevant -- even if I do agree with intent.
