[FEEDBACK]Legendary treasure is terrible

Ultimately I think it comes down to that last point.

Treasure can feel like a negative, but only after a certain rarity. I've gotten enough "awful" (subjective) rare items in my day that there are times I wish they were treasure. So for me Rare Treasure is the break point for my love of treasure.

After playing more, I think Epic and Legendary treasure is undervalued, and always feels negative versus having an actual deck building item in comparison.

So my contribution is:

I submit that Rare treasure should be re-evaluated (as 10 gold is slightly too low to "feel good" in having a treasure versus potential of getting a good item), 20-25 gold would be much better because it gives at least an Uncommon in shops.

Epic and Legendary Treasure needs a boost. I still stand by my thought that Legendary Treasure should be at least 500 gold (worth buying an Epic Item in the shop), and Epic Treasure should probably be at least 100 gold (worth 1 rare in shops).

My thoughts are always leading me to gain more resources to build more interesting and varied decks. If a legendary treasure is worth 200 gold currently and it costs me 2500 gold to get a legendary from a shop, than in my mind every time I receive a legendary treasure in place of a legendary item, I've lost out on 2300 gold.

While there are some additional factors to take into account (you have the freedom of choice in shops vs strict random chance in chests, and so on). I think higher rarity treasure is one facet of the game that's a negative that adds up mentally on a day to day basis.

(On a side note, Common/Uncommon Treasure is a blessing, and I jump for joy as I get those instead of common items as I replay through the campaign and in my normal chests in MP). Selling Multiples of common items feels significantly more tedious than selling common treasure.

 

I've been thinking about this, and what makes me angry about getting treasure is that it's always replacing something that might have been useful. I'm a Card Hunter, I get cards by winning battles which give items, and every treasure in effect takes away 3 or 6 cards that I earned.

Put that way, the solution was obvious: take treasures out of the loot tables, and instead make it so each chest has a small chance of giving a treasure in addition to your guaranteed non-treasure loot. That would make treasures a bonus, something extra above and beyond the loot you earned, something to celebrate, something to treasure, and not just another $%^% Rhinestone Pendant. This would make them rarer, increasing their perceived value while eliminating the frustration of being cheated out your guaranteed rare or epic.

 

I agree with the rule-of-thumb that Legendary treasure should give enough gold to buy an Epic item, and Epic treasure should give enough to buy a Rare item, and so on. I think that sounds fair.

But I'd also like to suggest that it would be nice if there was some other way treasures could be used other than simply selling them. Just some reason, any reason, why the player might want to collect them. For example, maybe there could be a checklist / tally thing of different treasures that the player could try to complete. Obviously not everyone would care about that (maybe only very few people would care), but at least it would give a sense that the treasures are unique in some way rather than just being placeholders for X amount of gold.

 

The trouble with adding that much value to legendary treasures is that it leads to massive inflation. Get one treasure for 300-500gp, and common items might as well become free (to buy, and worthless to sell).

I'm more in favour of other uses of them (either an exchange of multiple legendary treasures to one item, as suggested); a collector's list (with current gold value); or some other cosmetic value (unlock new character skins).

 

I would agree with you. Except that Legendary Treasures are...let's say...Not.Very.Common.

Legendaries are by definition hard to come by, and with that in mind it feels terrible to get one in treasure form.

Have you gotten a Legendary Treasure? I have, and it is not a great feeling to have 200 gold in place of having a Legendary item.

This especially true late in the game when I have a moderately stocked armory of Commons, Uncommons, and Rares.

 

Common items already might as well be free and are practically worthless in terms of their gold value. It doesn't feel that way when you're a new player, but trust me - in a few weeks you'll just be sitting on hundreds or thousands of gold, waiting for a decent item to show up in the rare shop.

There is no player economy in the game, therefore there is no such thing as inflation. Demand is limited by the randomness of the item shops and the randomness of drops. It is an inevitability of the game that you will gradually amass more and more money because there really is no cost of living to drain your supply. Increasing the gold conversion rate of treasure only changes the rate at which that occurs.

 

Mutak makes an excellent point.

New players would, by the grace of the dice gods, be blessed with a Legendary Treasure worth literally 150% more than it is now, be able to close the gap via the, now larger!, Rarity shop.

being able to purchase 5 Rares would feel fantastic as a new player, I know I loved purchasing a rare that I thought would improve a build.

for veteran players, If anything, It allows older players to get closer to the skyhigh - 2500 gold - Legendary cost in shops by having higher rarity treasure become more of a factor.

 

It would be a shame if boosting the value of treasures had the effect of significantly devaluing common and uncommon items. I think that's definitely something we should be mindful to avoid.

But the way I see it is this: I assume that finding a Legendary treasure is meant to be roughly as rare and as 'good' as finding a Legendary item, so I think it would be nice if it those treasures were as useful to the player as the items are. I think a good starting point would be to estimate that a random Legendary item has similar value to a chosen (ie. bought) Epic item. That sounds roughly fair to me.

I don't remember the exact price of each rarity of item level, but if choosing 1 epic item is fair, while choosing 5 rare items sounds too powerful, then perhaps the price gap between epics and rares should be narrowed a little.

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One important point to keep in mind is that the value of being able to choose which item you get goes up when you have more items. For example, suppose you're a new player with no epic or legendary items. Being able to choose an epic item might be a nice luxury, but in some sense it doesn't matter which epic item you get because it will definitely be one you don't already have. On the other hand, if you're a long time veteran player with heaps of legendary and epic items, then getting a random epic item is likely to be unhelpful because it will probably be an item you already have. Whereas getting the gold to choose and buy your own epic item is much more valuable because buying items is a reliable way to obtain items that you don't already have.

So with that effect in mind, I think it's fair to say that the correct balance for the gold value of treasures actually depends on which players we're trying to target. If the treasures are to be balanced for new players, then they should be worth a lot, whereas if treasures are to be balanced for long term players then their gold value should be relatively low.

I guess the bottom line is that the balance of relative values is actually pretty complex, and in order to get it right we first have to pin-down what the goals of the balance are.

 

If you guys are afraid of devaluing commons and uncommons too much, then the solution is to lower the price of legendaries and epics. Either way, something has got to give because legendary treasures are not even remotely comparable to their non-treasure counterparts.

 

The goal of the balance is to make Legendary Treasure feel comparable to Legendary Items.

I agree with this.

Purchasing legendary (specifically) items is outside the realm of possibility for the casual player, as there's no way they will gain the gold required to access these items in the store, unless they purchase and convert their Pizza into gold. I'm sure this solution to many is impossible.

 

Got another legendary treasure... Tarnished Crown... woo hoo...

 

That goal completely ignores the complexities that I was describing in the post you quoted. "Feel comparable to Legendary Items" for whom? If you're targeting new players who don't have any items, then the gold value should be somewhere between the purchasing cost of an epic and a legendary - but if you're targeting players who have spend hundreds of hours in the game, then the gold value should be much less than that.

Either way, I reckon the current value is too low, but I think your glib response is overly simplistic; and it's a strange answer for you to say given that the whole point of my post was that the question is more complex than it might appear.

 

Pity I didn't read this post before I "won" and sold three Legendary Shards last night!

 

Crap, I sold all my Dwarven memorabilia.

 

When, exactly? Before the rare shop refreshes? This is the first time I've ever seen something I'm willing to buy, and I don't know if I can get enough money from surplus non-treasures.

 

Grinding for the purple chest in MP just to get treasure is probably the most disappointing thing.

 

Damn, I sold my legendaries...

 

Yep: the one time I got purple that's what happened. So terrible.

I like to see Legendary/Epic treasures removed from the 'guaranteed' drop list. They're a fine random bonus but awful as the one good item in a Purple chest. Since I rarely see things I want in the store, more gold isn't worth much to me; a random cool item is much better.