If Traits are supposed to trigger from hand, well, Superstitious doesn't

It was observed here that, for instance, Vulnerable will trigger while attached to your character AND while hanging out in your hand. Well, I just drew Superstitious and had it in-hand while an ally died. Superstitious did not force me to discard my hand. Behold:

BATTLE LOG: Player=Sir Knight,Scenario=Astral Song,Room=ASS2 (Sir Knight),RoomID=9408,Event=PlayAction,Action=Inspiration,Instigator=Paragon,Targets=Paragon
BATTLE LOG: Scenario=Astral Song,Room=ASS2 (Sir Knight),RoomID=9408,Msg=Sir Knight drew Superstitious for Paragon
BATTLE LOG: Scenario=Astral Song,Room=ASS2 (Sir Knight),RoomID=9408,Msg=The active player is now Gary
BATTLE LOG: Player=Gary,Scenario=Astral Song,Room=ASS2 (Sir Knight),RoomID=9408,Event=PlayAction,Action=Spark,Instigator=Santaaz,Targets=Falspel
BATTLE LOG: Scenario=Astral Song,Room=ASS2 (Sir Knight),RoomID=9408,Msg=Falspel took 2 damage
BATTLE LOG: Scenario=Astral Song,Room=ASS2 (Sir Knight),RoomID=9408,Msg=Falspel died
BATTLE LOG: Scenario=Astral Song,Room=ASS2 (Sir Knight),RoomID=9408,Group=Falspel,Event=Discard,Card=Dash
BATTLE LOG: Scenario=Astral Song,Room=ASS2 (Sir Knight),RoomID=9408,Group=Falspel,Event=Discard,Card=Telekinesis
BATTLE LOG: Scenario=Astral Song,Room=ASS2 (Sir Knight),RoomID=9408,Group=Falspel,Event=Discard,Card=Dash
BATTLE LOG: Scenario=Astral Song,Room=ASS2 (Sir Knight),RoomID=9408,Msg=Sir Knight must play a Trait

The Trait I must play now, of course, is Superstitious. I wonder . . . had it worked correctly, would it have forced me to discard ITSELF, and thus not play it?

 

Likely a special case to deal with exactly this situation. I'll be interested to hear what they have to say about it though.

 

Its not a special case, the hand discard is a reaction and should have triggered regardless of whether it was played. This is a bug.

 

So it should discard itself so you don't end up getting the trait in the first place?

 

huh ? No. Turn comes around, draw cards....smthg dies, Superstitious reaction triggers, hand is discarded. Superstitious returns to hand. Player plays the trait. End of story. Same for Mindless Battlerage, the consistency is maintained.

edit: the above should say "Same for Mindless Battlerage and any other trait card with a reaction trigger that should proc from hand"

 

Except for the player still has a card in hand if what you say is true. Don't see how Mindless Battlerage plays into the cards in hand discussion at all -- which is what I believe to be the discussion.

 

Question: does a card which is played as a reaction, and is therefore in the centre of the screen, also count as in your hand?

If it does not then I'd say Phaselock is correct. If it does then I can see this exception having been put in to prevent weirdness of the sort Sir Knight and Blindsight have described.

 

A reaction is not played, it can only be triggered (http://www.cardhunter.com/2011/09/dev-diary-9-reactions/). Once it triggers, the card goes into a queue/pool for resolving, ie, it has left the hand. Once damage/effects are fully resolved, the card returns to hand. The fact that Superstitious exists already means that the card cannot discard itself, else it would defeat the purpose of the design. This holds even if there are multiple copies in hand and/or attached as stated here and referenced by SK above.

 

Thank you for the links (and when I said played I did mean triggered, sorry). In that case I agree, it seems like this is a bug. The expected order of events being:

1. Character dies.
2. A copy of superstitious triggers (and is therefore no longer in your hand).
3. All other cards, presumably including any other copies of superstitious(?), are discarded.
4. Triggering superstitious card returns to hand.

 

erm, not quite correct.

1. Character dies. All superstitious reactions trigger according to rule (left to right in hand).
2. All superstitious moves into 'reaction queue'.
3. Effect is processed, ie, hand is discarded.
4. All Superstitious cards empties from queue and returns to hand.
5. Player's turn comes around and then 'Trait' prompts.

So even with, say 3 x Vulnerables in hand.

1. Character suffers damage. 3 x Vulnerables reactions trigger according to rule (left to right in hand).
2. 3 x Vulnerables moves into 'reaction queue'.
3. Effect is processed one by one, ie, damage is incremented +1+1+1 and applied to target.
4. 3 x Vulnerables empties from queue and returns to hand.
5. Player's turn comes around and then 'Trait' prompts.

The proc flow is clear and every card is accounted for. Golden rule of CCG mechanics...at least that's what I'd expect the codes to do. Hope it helps.

 

Ah, understood. So in the case of superstitious, suppose you had 3 superstitious cards in your hand when a character died. You would discard all your other cards and then end up with 3 superstitious cards in your hand. On your turn you'd then have to play all these and draw 3 new cards to replace them. So... if a character is going to die at the start of a turn it's best to be either very superstitious or not superstitious at all!

Thank you for taking the time to explain this, I've never really played any CCGs before.

 

So in other CCG's, if a card is currently "doing something" then it no longer counts as being "in your hand," even if you will hold it in your hand immediately afterward?

If true, that's a pretty tricky and specialized rule to have to explain to people, but I can see circumstances where it could matter. Say, if you needed to total up hand size during a triggered event, people would want to know whether the triggered card counted.

But then . . . we have a funny situation today. Spike Mail, as you posted over here, is triggering AND THEN triggering while triggered. Obviously, it's not supposed to spike its own holder anyway, but the double-triggering suggests that "being in the triggered queue" is not currently "hard-coded" as separate from your hand. Thus, if Superstitious were to have triggered in my situation, it might very well have discarded itself even while in the "queue."

In other words, Blue Manchu is gonna have some fun sorting it out.

 

In Magic, its called the 'stack' (http://wizards.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/406/~/magic:-the-gathering---the-stack). In Yugioh, its called standby phase (iirc). There are many other labels from other ccgs, feel free to trawl the web. Oh...I think there have been theses written about Magic stack, so yeah...its pretty advanced and largely for serious Mtg players.

Apparently, Spiked Mail is only behaving weirdly for melee based attachments: Fiery Stab and Burning Blade. All other melee attachments so far inflict poison damage. I'm guessing that the 1st roll to successfully blocks the burning damage triggers another chain of reaction when it shouldn't. Maybe spiked mail thinks its been attacked by a melee attack after the 1st roll .... shrugs.

 

wow, I'm like...totally wrong ! My bad...

 

Well everyone knows we are just speculating on how things actually work. No worries and good conversations like these may help point out possible solutions as well.

 

This thread seems to be the most complete list. Is it possible for Unholy Energy to cause Kindler or Firestarter to be drawn before burning damage is dealt?