Experimenting with P2W

Well...

Only a fraction of new players matched together will obtain the gears necessary to move upward in the ratings. The rest will either quit for various reasons (most common case for a free to play game) or be presented with a gear check they can't pass through no fault of their own.

You can only keep adding new players as long as you keep getting them.

 

I don't think the system is anywhere near as bad as Korean cashgames. Those are orders of magnitude worse.

On main topic: since Lance is a top-performing free player, I don't think it is logically possible for him to disprove the claim "Card Hunter is Pay to Win." If he is able to win a lot without paying money, there is no way to tell when he's winning after paying money whether it's because of the money or not.

 

If you read my original post you see that I was using a test account for this experiment, not my regular account.

 

A "gear check?" What are you talking about?

 

A gear check is a situation in MMORPGs where some area of the game is basically impossible to complete because you need specific gear or items for it.

As far as Card Hunter is concerned, if you can keep improving and moving up the MP ratings, you'll eventually face legendaries that give a definite advantage over what's commonly available. If you want to compete on equal footing, you need those same legendaries yourself or you're out of luck.

 

Well, I've yet to reach that point in the ratings...

My favorite party consists of the following item types:
12 Common
3 Uncommon
9 Rare
5 Epic
0 Legendary
Additionally my best character doesn't even have any epic items. Furthermore, of the fourteen Legendary items I currently have I've only used one of them in any ranked MP since the last reset. So, I don't see how you can say that about Legendary items.

 

Surely it's a stretch to call higher ELO rankings an "area of the game." No matter where you rank, you play on the same battlefields for the same rewards as everyone else.

Well, if the matchmaker is any good at all*, you should rarely (if ever) get matched against opponents with a hugely significant advantage over you.

The whole point of ranked matchmaking is that you play a few games, climb the ladder a bit, and eventually settle in at a ranking with players of similar skill and/or means (though I'd argue that skill is the greater factor by far). Ideally everybody is winning roughly half of their games, whether they're at 1000 or 1700.

*That's a different discussion, but for the purpose of this one let's assume that it is.

 

Interesting info. I took a tally of mine as well:

4 Common
13 Uncommon
8 Rare
4 Epic
0 Legendary


My main threat in the party has 3 rares (Shield, Armor and Dwarf skill) and nothing of higher rarity. My epics are a weapon and boots on one priest, a weapon and armor on another. Honestly at least 2 of those 4 epics are pretty questionable to me right now and will likely be swapped out. My ranking did fall below 1300 recently and it was actually heavily influenced by of one of the epics I'm really questioning taking out.

Just for illumination on my situation, I do have 10 legendary items to select from and over 60 other epics I could use but choose not to use. So it would appear that Legendary items aren't the end game people are making them out to be.

 

Yes, but you're using your regular brain, not a test brain (I assume).

 

Ah, sorry I misunderstood what you meant. However, despite my experience I would submit that there is a clear discrepancy between my regular account and my test accounts effectiveness in MP. This is evident by my win loss ratio.

 

Would you please submit your records with your regular account and your test accounts for consideration? Also, just for clarity, how complete is the collection on your regular account, relative to the test accounts?

 

I would be willing to bet that some of your rare's are just as good as legendaries if not better.

For example, here is a lv. 6 "common" item:

Purple Cloak

It used to have whirlwind on it, LV. 6 COMMON ITEM with whirlwind. Can you imagine how ridiculous that is? No orb cost? Whirlwind? That is legendary quality, but thankfully, someone spotted this issue and it was just recently ninja nerfed in the latest hotfix build because the whirlwind is no longer there, instead it is dimensional traveler.

So it's almost 100% guaranteed that some of your items are totally OP Lance, but have misappropriate rarity ratings or abilities given their rarities.

 

Yes, yes I can.

 

So wait a Randomize every characters position is OP for no orb cost? *boggle* We also aren't talking about power orbs, I think that's another balancing concern entirely.

Anyway, if his commons are totally OP then everyone else can get the same items with that same rarity. Not sure how this argument holds any water.

 

First off, it's not EVERYONE that gets randomized... JUST the enemies!

Moreover, just because an item is common does not mean it is easy to get. Common items are so plentiful it can take hours of farming to get the commons you want. Or better yet, because there is no complete card listing most players aren't even aware of what items to farm for.

For example, that purple cloak item was totally OP (whirlwind is one of the best cards in the game) yet in my games of PvP despite it being a common item I only saw one or two other wizards, out of dozens of opponents, use that card. People simply were not aware. I'm very glad that card got nerfed. Likewise, I can only imagine Lance's deck uses the same things, so his argument of "Legendaries aren't that good," is nonsense since he may have broken commons/rares/uncommons that are better than most legendaries.

Additionally, I would wager that there are legendaries out there Lance would be more than happy to add to his deck if he could get his hands on them.

 

NO idea what you mean here. Everyone is building off of randomized items received. Enemies have set decks... Not sure how this relates to P2W at all.

Right, so we all have the same chance of getting them -- unless you're suggesting that people will being paying to buy a bunch of common chests to try to get all the common items? Which may be the case but seems silly since you say commons are so plentiful that it would take a long time to find the ones you want.

I had 2 purple cloaks, they just weren't worth using for me. Also not sure why you think Whirlwind is such a good card. Panic button, sure, but meh.

Very likely, yet, with the ones both he and I have, we don't have any we choose to use. Of the ones he's posted that he's received in his P2W testing, I might play one or two total. But I'd have to base my decks around them and I'm not sure I'd like the play style at all.

 

I think he is confused about Whirlwind, which as of course you know randomizes everyones position including your party. I believe he is thinking of Whirlwind Enemies.

 

I will have to look up the exact numbers of how complete my collection is. But I will post what items and the amount of each that I have. I will start now with Legendary and Epic items. I'm not sure exactly what you intended by records, could you elaborate?

Legendary (15)
Advanced Insight
Brightblood Glaive
Darune's Dagger
Hand Of Melvelous
Inara's Boots
Mordecai's Staff Of Magma
Oquith's Choking Incense
Oskar's Pine Shield
Porior's Nimble Mace
St. Malaj's Cuirass
St. Xarol's Mace
The Perforator
2xUnholy Nimbus
Yount's Chain

Epic (89 if I counted correctly)
Aataabulous's Boots
Advanced Command
2xAjan's Glowing Vial
Apprentice Command
Apprentice Tactics
2xAxander's Twisted Circlet
Badjeera's Black Relic
Banik's Bubbling Bauble
Battered Holy Mail
Bertha's Big Clogs
Bimson's Hard Stone
Bloody Bracelet
Charring Staff
3xCherry Shield
2xCleansing Diamond
Club Of Wrath
Cottonwood Staff
Crepin's Shroud
Dragonslayer Sword
Eych's Amulet
Firehide Robes
Flashing Longspear
Flicker's Earcuff
Foley's Footwear
Giant Skeletal Arm
Giant's Battleaxe
Gleaming Glaive
Hawlic's Armor
Hylithia's Wand
Impervious Panoply
Inkdark Halberd
Jygpin's Healing Ring
Lizard Hide Boots
Magma Scepter
Magnetic Shield
Mouse Boots
Nifty Halberd
2xNimbus Blade
Noral's Cleansing Relic
Oakenheart Shield
Ogre Plate
Oliver's Boots
Pendant Of Artax
Perfect Insight
Quigley's Cap
2xRantic's Orb Of Inner Fire
2xRing Of Appropriation
Ring Of Hot Spikes
2xRipping Mace
Robe Of Useful Things
Robe Of Geomancers
Salazar's Sandals
Sarigo's Rod
2xSharp Shell
Shimmering Helm
Sparking Shell
2xSparkling Shield
St Ulrich's Bones
St. Glist's Charm
St. Voral's Charm
2xStaff Of Blazing Sparks
2xStaff Of The Inferno
Superb Stoutness
Tauri's Stone Maze
The Soulstone
Toughness
Trained Flexibility
Untrained Footwork
2xVigun's Blessed Blade
Voltstaff
Waenog's White Chain
2xWedge Shield
2xWoodhome's Wound

 

Frankly, I don't buy the argument that item rarity equates to power. Power is actually tracked by the power token cost, not the rarity of the item. I think I can clearly show that in the current items.

It's dangerous comparing items with completely different cards, so look at The Bludgeonator in comparison to Infused Greatclub , since they share very similar attacks. The Bludgeonator is legendary, 2 levels higher, and most importantly requires an improved power token over the (only) rare Infused Greatclub .

Both of these items share the 2 best attack cards, the remaining cards on the The Bludgeonator do slightly more damage (2 extra damage on one card, one extra on the other 3 attack cards).

Is The Bludgeonator more powerful? Yes, slightly. But if power were being improved due to rarity of the item, this would be a very small increase in damage for two jumps in rarity. Instead look at the power tokens, the more powerful item requires a greater commitment in power token usage. There is an in-game cost associated with the power of the item, it doesn't appear to be influenced by the rarity of the item.

Could there be overpowered legendary items discovered in the Beta? Of course. Can you point to the games design as favoring builds with legendary items? As my example shows, I don't think you can.