Beta Feedback on RNG

How do you account for 'the other posters here' not experiencing the problem at all? How do you account for only one of your characters seeming to be affected? Surely every character's card draws are determined by the same RNG. Are your other characters consistently not drawing certain cards as well?

If you're really serious about there being a problem, then do some troubleshooting. That's what we're here for after all. Maybe the character in that slot is bugged? Try reordering your characters. Maybe it's a problem with human warriors in particular? Try a different character in his place instead. A dwarf maybe.

Four or five games is a pretty miniscule sample size. Instead of posting a log every fifteen minutes and saying "SEE!?", play for a week or so, save the logs, and then report your findings . If you are playing fairly often then that might (might!) be enough to begin seeing patterns and perhaps draw some conclusions. If you can do that and perhaps be a little more civil about it people may start to take you more seriously.

 

How do I endlessly see the same 6 cards in the first 4-5 turns EVERY GAME? Occam's Razor would suggest it's not a highly improbable mathematical phenomenon, instead how about a broken RNG?

 

You are right, of course this IS a minuscule sample size, except I'm telling you this is happening EVERY GAME for 500 plus games I simply didn't know about F2 before just a few hours ago and don't have the overwhelming data to show you'll just have to take my word on it. (I know, gasp! Actually believing someone is so hard when they are attempting to show you something you aren't experiencing yourself!)

As for it taking fifteen minutes I do play a bit slow what with having to check my logs and post the results, I also step away from the game to... you know, live life. As for being civil when people are telling you that you are insane or stupid it's a little hard to be polite back, especially when I'm neither stupid nor insane.

Insofar as troubleshooting sadly I'm not a programmer I don't know how to check the code or whatnot to see what's wrong that's why I'm reporting this in hopes that one of the developers becomes aware of the problem and CAN look into it to see what the problem is. I also don't know how to change my order or even use a different race instead never really tried to. I suppose I could try that. If someone could tell me how to reorder my characters or switch races I would be grateful.

I cannot say what other people are experiencing or account for the issues they are or are not having. (maybe they are just psychologically convinced that everything is alright when it's not )

 

Haha, go back and reread your opening post and tell me that you began this conversation in a civil, polite way. Go on, I'll wait.

 

To reorder your characters you have to go into the keep and remove characters, and then add them back in in a different order. To get characters of a different race you have to hire them at the tavern. They cost 10 gold. When I say troubleshooting I don't mean you have to look at code, I mean you try different circumstances and see if you can narrow down the problem. Does it affect the character in the first slot only? Does it affect only human warriors? That sort of thing.

 

I most certainly was civil and polite in my original post. I insulted no one I stated my undying hatred for the RNG and hoped it died in a fire of one of the most horrible places in history, (and I still do) my venom was not loosed on any person here living or dead. My hatred is for a non-living entity a construct of 1's and 0's which is not functioning correctly. I suppose I used the word hell but in context.

 

You realize this really doesn't count as data either. Posting one round, and without actual replacement cards (slicer, fumble) doesn't say much. In fact without knowledge of what's actually in the deck and having records of many full games when dealing with probabilities your sample isn't going to be big enough to prove anything. In fact it barely even suggests anything. Showing the logs of a few full games might lend weight to your story though. (I'd suggest a file that you upload rather than just pasting into the forums.)

It happens, we all know it happens. It actually SHOULD happen. There's no use arguing about it (from either side).

If you really think it's a problem, as you and others obviously do, suggest to the developers that they should track the number of times per game that people are drawing non attack cards and see if it falls within what they believe is acceptable. They will be able to get more actual data on the situation than any of us ever could and make changes (or not) according to their findings.

 

Ned Stark
Level 13 Human Warrior

Weighted Shortsword​

Weighted Shortsword​

Crummy Short Sword​

Thick Cuirass​

Spiked Buckler​

Fool's Coif​

Tough Fencer's Boots​

Novice Tactics​

Trained Chopping​

​

Gil-Galad
Level 13 Elf Wizard

Sapphire Warstaff​

Sapphire Warstaff​

Orzo's Excellent Wand​

White Orb​

Malachite Orb​

Mindzap Bauble​

Turquoise Robes​

Rusted Iron Boots​

Trained Footwork​

Trained Sparking​

​

Lem
Level 13 Human Priest

Giant Skeletal Arm​

Holy Axe​

Strong Healer's Mail​

Cautious Shield​

Croc Skin Boots​

Blessed Demon Claw​

Yolop's Talisman​

Hand Of Melvelous​

Novice Tactics​

Holy Cleansing​

​

Interesting. This is not what I've been using for the games in the log I change my deck to each levels challenges but it's a fair assessment for the most part

 

I understand randomness I know that it is random to have for example a coin that always lands heads in ten thousand flips. However; it doesn't make for a fun experience when you need a tails every now an then. Even if it is working properly and giving a good stream of pseudo-random numbers it's not producing a fun experience. I would propose to you that it's only because of the other two characters that I'm even able to get as far as I am. I'm not having fun. I cannot state that enough. This is my feedback to you as a developer. To coin a phrase from an old prince 'Something IS rotten in Denmark.' I know my logs posted here is a small sample but trust me it's happening to me in every game since the first ones. I'm drawing the lowest end of the curve if I am in the acceptable limit. (I don't think I am in the curve at all honestly though) I'll attempt to keep collecting data if you would like. I really like the concept of the game, I think in theory it's brilliant. But in practice I'm not getting correct probability odds and it's ruining my fun.

J-wiz you state nothing but truth, but the fact that I *will* draw attack cards once I've used all the non attack cards up doesn't help much when the game is already over before I get that far because I didn't have attack cards when I NEEDED them.

 

And by the way thank you both for taking the time to respond to me.

 

Heh, I have never posted a thread to ridicule anyone from the 1st day I've registered on this forum. You are prolly the first user to do it and didn't even have the decency to tell it to my face. The thread was created for the masses. In fact, I think I'll make it into a wiki guide. You claim your deck has less than 10 cards now, when you clearly wrote in your own posts here (http://www.cardhunter.com/forum/threads/beta-feedback-on-rng.2386/#post-25324) of having 26 attack cards out of 36 cards.

Now to your CURRENT build:
Ned Stark
Level 13 Human Warrior

Weighted Shortsword​

Weighted Shortsword​

Crummy Short Sword​

Thick Cuirass​

Spiked Buckler​

Fool's Coif​

Tough Fencer's Boots​

Novice Tactics​

Trained Chopping​

​

Weighted shortword = 6 attack​

Weighted shortword = 6 attack​

Crummy Short Sword = 6 attack​

Thick Cuirass = 3 non-attack​

Spiked Buckler = 1 attack, 2 non-attack (I treat your hybrid as 1 attack)​

Fool's Coif = 3 non attack​

Tough Fencer's Boots = 1 attack, 2 non-attack​

Novice Tactics = 3 non-attack​

Trained Chopping = 2 attack, 1 non-attack​

TOTAL ATTACK CARDS = 6 + 6 + 6 + 1 + 1 + 2 = 22 (61%)​

TOTAL NON-ATTACK CARDS = 3 + 2 + 3 + 2 + 3 + 1 = 14 (39%)​

TOTAL CARDS = 14 + 22 = 36​

Granted, you might have a problem with pulling attack cards. One way to confirm this is for devs to pull data of ALL card draws for all players and track if indeed the probability distribution function (pdf) is screwed. The simpler way is to make a pure single class party with all identical items and run a 1000 trials/100 games for 10 turn draws. Something ANY tester could have done.

Whichever the case, you (TheOneBigOne) should NEVER have even made this thread into a whine/troll post.

 

CALCULATIONS FOR 26 ATTACK CARDS, 10 NON-ATTACK CARDS IN DECK

Chance of drawing

11 attacks cards in 11 = 1.2860 %
10 attacks cards in 11 = 8.8410 %
9 attacks cards in 11 = 23.403 %
8 attacks cards in 11 = 31.2036 %
7 attacks cards in 11 = 22.9921 %
6 attacks cards in 11 = 9.65670 %
5 attacks cards in 11 = 2.29921 %
4 attacks cards in 11 = 0.29860 %
3 attacks cards in 11 = 0.01947 %
2 attacks cards in 11 = 0.00054 %
1 attacks cards in 11 = 4.32753E-06 %
0 attacks cards in 11 = 0 %

The total chance of drawing 7 to 9 attacks cards in the 1st 5 turns is 77.6 % ! In other words, it was highly likely that there would be 1 - 2 turns out of 5 where there would be no attack cards.

NOW I DO THE SAME CALCULATIONS FOR 30 ATTACK CARDS, 6 NON-ATTACK CARDS IN DECK

Chance of drawing

11 attacks cards in 11 = 9.09235 %
10 attacks cards in 11 = 30.0047 %
9 attacks cards in 11 = 35.7199 %
8 attacks cards in 11 = 19.4836 %
7 attacks cards in 11 = 5.08268 %
6 attacks cards in 11 = 0.59298 %
5 attacks cards in 11 = 0.02372 %
4 attacks cards in 11 = 0 %

The total chance of drawing 7 to 9 attacks cards in the 1st 5 turns is 60.3 %. The total chance of drawing 10 to 11 cards in the 1st 5 turns is 39.1 %. The total chance of drawing 8 to 10 attacks cards in the 1st 5 turns is 85.2 %. In short, even with 30 attack cards in deck, there would be at least 1 turn out of 5 where there would be no attack cards.

 

Going to have to disagree with you there - chess is objectively a better game than war. The only reason I'd ever play war over chess when both are present is because my brain hurts too much to play chess. And even then it's a toss up.

Better is better, really. It encompasses many things, perhaps most of which is "more fun." Fun depends on fairness, and a number of other things.

In my opinion, the answers are, respectively, random, relatively little since the cards you can have are limited by the slots you have, I'd give clerics a white card every turn rather than an attack (since white cards are their function, like attacks are a warrior's), and for the last set of questions, I'd actually rather the "attack card every turn" be approached like the "movement card every turn" is. You have a race pool for your movement card that you get every turn. You have a class pool for your attack / heal / spell card that you get every turn. To be more specific, mages get some kind of spell every turn (which means some manner of range, and not bash), clerics get some kind of holy spell every turn, and warriors get some kind of attack every turn.

There's a ton of balancing questions that come with any design decision, including the ones already made. Just because you have one set of features in place and it would be difficult to change them doesn't mean you shouldn't.

 

Look, you made 7 posts or so about 5 games or so. I did a test of 30 games earlier in this thread that you ignored. I'll repeat it:

 

Objectivity is not influenced by emotions or personal prejudices. If I tell you that War is a better game than Chess and you tell me I'm wrong, it has no bearing on the actual games themselves because there are no truly objective observers for a game that plays into the enjoyment of subjective beings.

The rub here is that there are many items with cardsets that defy the nature of how you perceive the classes; more specifically how they should be played. examples being: Drain clerics who stack all attack cards in their divine items, "Melee Mages" who have the staves with a lot of parry, block, and perplexing arcane items, and other iterations of the same ideas (non-traditional roles and builds).

But it also doesn't mean you should.