So it appears that in Card Hunter, the quality (not rarity) of a card is the best indication of it's overall power level. I have some concerns about the move and attack cards quality ratings (the banners on the card). Dancing Cut , Nimble Strike , and Vicious Thrust are all considered silver quality, which seems to be why they are so common on the current items. These cards are already very powerful, they represent a form of card advantage for warriors. One card allows you to both move and attack in the same action. For instance Nimble Strike allows a character to move equal to a Dash with a cantrip effect, and then do 6 damage. Vicious Thrust is only a walk card, but goes up to 7 damage and adds penetrating. These cards seem very, very good for their quality. I personally think that this built in card advantage is the primary reason warriors seem to prefer these cards for MP. Comparing Vicious Thrust to Impaling Stab illustrates this. Both are penetrating attacks, the stab gets 2 more points of damage while thrust gets an extra square of range. The thrust card can also be used as a move card in a pinch, such as avoiding terrain or to move to a scoring tile. These cards seem very similar in power to me, with the thrust being more versatile for a small reduction in damage. Yet Impaling Stab is considered a higher quality card. Personally I think that Vicious Thrust should be a gold quality card. Nimble Strike seems very close as well, just for giving a free dash. I'm curious what other player's think about these cards.
I prefer Vicious Thrust and Nimble Strike over Impaling Stab, so I agree with you. Impaling Stab is still very strong, tho. As for overall balance, I wouldn't say warriors are currently OP, so be careful with any nerf to VT/NS.
I agree. Both Nimble Strike and Vicious Thrust get an automatic 'Oo, gimme!' reaction from me which is a pretty good indication that they're at the same level as Impaling Stab.
I believe Vicious Thrust is equivalent to range 1 under encumber, Impaling Stab is not. This means the later is immune to encumber with a +2 damage advantage. My 2 cts...
That depends on the amount of encumber, and even at the point of being too encumbered to step 2, it's still a good attack.
I'm much more on the fence with Nimble Strike, at silver it gives warriors some (needed) counter play against wizards. They can close the distance and hit them for 6 since Wizards don't tend to be up on the whole armor thing. Against non-wizards, a strength 6 attack, without penetrating, isn't a big deal. With a built in Dash cantrip it does add a LOT of speed to warriors, nimble dwarves aren't slow. Vicious Thrust is still really good, because it's silver you get more of them on cards and at lower levels than you do for Impaling Stab . You need to get upwards of weapons like Heavy War Pick to get three stabs on an item, and even then it still has a negative trait. Rageblood Dagger is 10 levels lower and requires less talent allocation. They are both good cards, I just tend to think that they are closer in power than Vicious Thrust is to other good silver cards. Compare Vicious Thrust to Powerful Hack or Powerful Bludgeon. Vicious Thrust does 4 less damage, but get's penetrating to balance that out, plus adds a completely free card in the cantrip walk. Quick Step is a cantrip shuffle and even that is considered a silver quality card as well. Poor Bash only gets to do 4 damage at the silver quality.
Considering the low damage step/attack cards deal when compared to other warrior cards, your only getting 1/2 the damage on average for items of the same caliber. Warriors even when equipped with loads of step/attacks stand there while encumbered. My original warrior's deck held 12 Nimble Strikes. So, I can know the merit of step/attack. However, it comes with a serious damage cost... so, to each his/her own? 2 cents.
Not when combined with the common Unholy Wellspring and Mass Frenzy cards. besides, mixing the step cards with larger damage strikes is generally the way to go. Get there, obliterate them, then get to the next one... At least that's how warriors I go up against tend to do.
Indeed. However, when you start talking about combinations, especially ones which require a different character (and different class), then you go down a slippery slope. But a single halt or encumber renders such an enemy incapacitated. I personally enjoy facing warriors who rely on attachments for their damage. But that's just me.
I already talked about this. Vicious Thrust is more than half the damage, plus it get's penetrating to help with armor. I don't see the point on encumbrance. If a warrior doesn't have step/attack cards, they would still be just as encumbered for whatever attack cards they do have. If they can't get adjacent, or close enough for stabs all the attack cards have the same issue. At least Nimble Strike offers some options for those with less than 4 encumbrance.
... you may not see the point of it. But I assure you encumber is lethal. Although, that is a different discussion.
Well sure, if you look at a warrior isolated my team could handle them no problem. I don't think there is a point in discussing that. You have to look at the full ecosystem of possibilities in order to judge something, not just the singular entity. Discussing halt cards is impactful on this conversation because of the fact that it disallows the use of the attack cards at all. I'm not sure if the movement reducing effect of halt is important though since the only one I've ever gotten myself (Entangling Roots) has a single turn duration and the fact that the character can still move through (many) other means.
If you are only discussing individual card strength as the OP was doing, then I don't agree with yr comment. No designer cannot take all possibilities into account, doesn't matter what super algorithm used. Balancing is a data-centric process not a subjective driven experience. This is where the confusion is. You are mistaking the quality of a card with its availability. It is not because Vicious Thrust is silver so you get more of them on cards. Its because its uncommon. And the reason you are not seeing more of Impaling Stab is because its beta ! Prior to the 'deluge', more than 500 items were removed from the game. Tons were reworked and will continue to be. A comparison between Vicious Thrust and Impaling Stab is hardly fair. This is my below decomposition: Stabs a) Paper: Stab (3 dam, r2) b) Bronze: Able Stab(4 dam, r2), Predictable Stab (5 dam, r2), Tricky Stab (5 dam, r2) c) Silver: Strong Stab (6dam, r2), Potent Stab (8 dam, r2), Puncturing Stab (4 dam, r2) d) Gold: Impaling Stab (9dam, r2), Penetrating Stab (6 dam, r2) Attack + move a) Paper: Lunging Hack (2 dam, r1) b) Bronze: Lunging Strike (4 dam, r1), Shifty Stab (2 dam, r2), Lunging Bash (3 dam, r1), Lunging Thrust (3 dam, r1), Penetrating Lunge(4 dam, r1) c) Silver: Nimble Strike (6 dam, r1), Vicious Thrust (7 dam, r1), Dancing Cut (4 dam, r1), Surging Bolt (3 dam, r6) d) Gold: Surging Blast (5 dam, r6) It looks quite obvious to me that the gold standard between stabs and hybrid (attack + move) is very different. Comparing Vicious Thrust and Impaling Stab is like comparing apples to oranges...
Comparing two attack cards is not apples to oranges. But I do enjoy how you want to include spell cards which a warrior wouldn't even have access to. Surging blast should hardly be considered, when it belongs to a completely different character type. And it most definitely appears that card quality has an impact on how many of a card you will see appear on an item. At the level of items we are seeing currently, they will include more cards of lower quality on an item (which is a prime reason you will see 3 or more of these on an item). Rarity also plays in, but does not seem to be the only factor. In fact it appears that rarity just dictates the rarity of the items you'll see the card attached to.
Speaking of Attack + Move cards - is it a bug that you have to stab one of your own guys if no other target is available? Shouldn't you just be able to hit "Done"?
It's intentional. Here's one earlier thread about it: http://www.cardhunter.com/forum/threads/feedback-move-attack-cards.1858/
. . . And you'll see my own post at the bottom, wherein I quote other posts, including Jon's statement on the matter. I've quoted him in quite a number of other places, as, yes, lots of folks are concerned about this "game feature." In fact, Mutak, I'm surprised no one had given you a direct link until now. I fear . . . I fear that everyone on the forum simultaneously went "Sir Knight will quote it, I don't have to." My apologies. If you'd like, I can try not to have another job interview when I should be on the forum.
