Should Cantrip effects give you a free "first pass"?

If you pass first, you get to go first next round. Which is to say: if your opponent plays a card, and then you pass on your turn, and then your opponent passes, you have the "first pass" and therefore have the advantage.

If you play a card with Cantrip (e.g., Quick Step), you get to take another turn (play another card) before your opponent's turn.

If your opponent passes first, and then you play a card with Cantrip, and then you take your extra turn TO PASS, then your opponent's pass is forgotten. The round doesn't end: you now have "first pass," and it's up to your opponent to figure out what to do next.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

 

Interesting idea. The flow of play makes sense. I haven't played enough to really weigh in on this subject, but I like the thought process. Does passing first need a counter?

 

Isn't this basically the point of Cantrip a move that doesn't take up your turn?

 

Well, I was waiting for somebody to go "Ugh! You can steal the pass from somebody with a card?! THAT'S TERRIBLE! I GOT THERE FIRST AND THEN THE IDIOT AI STOLE MY PASS FROM ME, I WAS ABOUT TO WIN!" (cough, cough.) But okay, sounds like people are down with the idea.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying, though, Wozarg. I defined Cantrip in my post, and I talked about passing. What's your question?

 

It wasn't as much a question as a statement improperly formed in the shape of a inquiry.

What i really meant to say was. Its working exactly as written and most likely intended.

But i completely missed the point and i retract that statement completely as i do agree with you that stealing the pass isn't fair in my personal opinion.

 

Hah, I see I phrased myself poorly: I can go either way on this. Allowing a pass-steal ability increases game complexity (and therefore strategy) at the cost of what was once a guaranteed "you pass first, and now there's nothing that can take that away from you." If people think the extra complexity is good, then so be it.

(And I phrased it so dramatically because I'm used to folks getting up-in-arms over the strangest of things.)

 

The first pass is a sacred bond between two contenders, so having Cantrip bypass that violates the whole spirit of the battle!

 

Well Cantrips are already very strong the way they are so they don't need this extra really big thing. If it is intentional i will voice my opinion that it is too strong and i dislike it. If it is unintentional i would like it to be fixed if possible for reasons already stated. I really do think its a bug caused by the passing system not being programed to keep track past anything that isn't a second pass.

 

What do you mean by commonplace? As in usage or as in the number of cards with it. I have a number of boots with this card and usually have one character using them. I'm not sure if I have seen the card on other gear.

 

I don't think I've ever witnessed it, but I believe Traits could also allow this to happen in rare cases. I'm with Pengw1n that it seems like a legitimate result; it may be desirable to write the rules/text to state that you take another turn (as distinct from a continuation of a single turn). The supposed "first" passer loses that privilege because the second player didn't pass, she or he played a card. Just because said card gives the next turn after that to the same player doesn't change the fact that the round did not yet have passes on two successive turns.

 

I can see where the're going with this. In PvE it seems stratigicly fair, but in PvP.... Perhaps more testing is needed to determine.

 

Well, I don't see how strategy would be "fair" versus the computer and NOT so against a human. Humans, after all, have the ability to stock "defensive Cantrips"--that is, if you're concerned that your enemy will steal your "first pass," you can put Cantrips into your deck to steal it back.

 

I dislike it but at the same time if it would mean a lot of work for the devs i can live with it. If it on the other hand is a quick fix that requires no special coding and stuff i would like it changed not to do this.

 

Fair and square (IMHO).
You have to use 1 card to get the "first pass", lowering your hand for a real advantage only if you have already good cards in hand, otherwise you have to rely on draw.