Aloyzo's Arsenal Discussion Thread

Some day, years down the line, I'll have dozens of pitchforks. They'll have mostly been implemented into the game in a category of their own. Now I just need to decide on what cards to give the pitchfork for this discussion.

 

Lol. I don't monitor private chat. I don't care at all if folks discuss the contest, and submissions, with each other in private.

Meevar... I'm being dramatic because you're being silly. I state two simple guidelines: don't discuss the submissions until the contest is over. Don't submit extra materials. You keep asking for exceptions, you keep pointing to people breaking those guidelines as if that changes my request. In my experience, people only push as much as you do when they're looking for exploits, for an advantage. If you want to participate in AA the way I am asking people to participate in AA, just follow the guidelines! Don't talk about submissions! Don't submit additional materials! If you don't want to participate in AA the way I am asking people to participate in AA, don't pretend to care about my guidelines! Which is it?

(And no, I don't know why people don't read rules and post extra stuff that has nothing to do with the contest. You think I'm exaggerating and being rude, as if it's obvious why so many people read "submit only the above 4 pieces of information" and then also post flavor text, something that doesn't even exist in the game. If it's so obvious to you then maybe you can explain it to me. Where is the disconnect? Is it in the number four? Or do folks not consider flavor text information? Help me understand before dismissing my confusion as rudeness, 'yo.')

 

I think where you're losing many of us is the whole "Read and Follow Instructions" thing.

 

It's not like a submission was ever rewarded for NOT following instructions, right?

Cause if it were, I'd expect all kinds of silliness the month after.

 

Oh the salt is coming back!
No but seriously, I agree

 

Bending the rules to deliver a quality design, without presenting extra information or explaining yourself, is substantially different from doing a bunch of non-item-design-related things to improve your chances of winning. If you don't see the difference, that's ok! But, as I suggested to Meevar, don't bother asking about the rules if you don't want to follow them as stated. Bend them all you want if you don't agree with them. See how far it gets you.

 

I think people are confused why you think flavor text is such a terrible thing. I get that it's useless in this case but I don't look at bad flavor text in other games and think to myself, "Gee, this card would be playable if it weren't for the godawful taste the flavor text left in my mouth." I'd be willing to bet that most of the flavor text submissions were just in good fun and had no ulterior motives. It's not my contest of course so the final say is up to you but I think you are taking too hard a stance on something that is mostly harmless.

 

When I look at 'item flavor text' in a submission, my first, instinctual thought is, 'this person doesn't really know how the card/item system in CH works.' I don't assume ulterior motives, just poor reading comprehension and a certain carelessness that doesn't often go hand-in-hand with strong design. Usually, the cards chosen and—when present—level & rarity suggested bear out this assumption. I'm not about to DQ someone for providing flavor text, as I've said. But it looks really bad, and usually accompanies a bad submission.

 

You DO understand us!!!

 

Gonna go slightly out of topic, I kind of wish the timeline of each AA would kind of stabilize. You know, AA starts at the beginning of the month, ends at the end of it, next AA begins at the beginning of the next month, etc. Results and said items being added? I wish there was a way to just, you know, have a set of days you'd had to wait for the results, but I understand people have different things on their head in their lives, so I'm not gonna ask about that.

 

I'd like it too, if that helps.
Unfortunately it's not so simple because there are multiple people involved (I have to coordinate winner selection with Jon and video recording with CT5; also, the timing for AA winners getting added to the game depends on when we launch a build, which is variable) and this is basically a pet project of mine (running AA isn't "work").

 

If we're being picky, there's flavor text on cards, which currently a thing for every card and which would be expected if we were being asked to propose new cards (!); and flavor text proposed on items, which does not exist for any item (or, if it does in some database table, there is nowhere in the UI that actually shows flavor text per item, and from the perspective of a player not digging around, it does not exist).

Item flavor comes from the title and the selection of cards; if it does not make sense from just those, it might as well not make sense to anybody who starts playing six months from now, gets the item, and doesn't bother to research the thread. Now, if there were a "subtly themed items" theme for the month, sure, but otherwise...

 

I know how it works, but I would love Flavour text also on the items. It would be so cool.

 

I'm not asking for exceptions, I'm asking you if you will continue to make exceptions and if so, would you be transparent about it and clarify in the rules. I don't know why you're having trouble answering some very simple questions or why you seem to have a bee in your bonnet, when as you pointed out, this thread is for doing just that. Is there something I'm missing?

Actually, this is a part of your experience and I'm not looking to exploit anything, I just want to know what the rules really are for the sake of everyone entering. I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to smear me for it.

On discussing submissions, I do not want to discuss my submission. I just think it's shonky that people are getting critique on their submissions in the Smithy while the competition runs, as long as they haven't actually submitted them yet, while others who've made a submission that they know is erroneous, are shut out from getting help. I don't think that's clear in the rules/preamble to the competition and if it's how you want the competition to run, you should spell it out there. This is obviously no excuse for my own thinly veiled suggestion to an entrant, which I have apologised for and have no intention of repeating.

I'm not a complete idiot. I'm aware that by apparently annoying you, I've probably "DQ'd" myself forever, based on your current display of level headedness. Yet I persist. Clearly some kind of sneaky rascal trying to win at all costs.

I don't want to include a visual description to get ahead of anyone else, just so that if my entry is selected, it has a chance to fit my vision. Be as cynical as you want, but I expect everyone else who has done the same has done it for the same reason.

On flavour text, I guess one person confused cards and items, loved the flavour text in the game and thought they had such a great idea for flavour text for their item that they couldn't bear for the item to be made without it. Other people saw the submission and thought that they had a great idea for their own flavour text too, including it to fill out their item if it is selected, not to improve its chance of being selected, which obviously it wouldn't, because you have explained the criteria upon which you judge a submission. I don't think this is rocket science and I think you were and still are being deliberately snide.

If you're wondering why people would continue to include anything other than the 4 points in your entry, despite what appear to be the rules, look no further than the fact that you've selected winners who have done just that.

I don't believe you're obliged to answer every question that's put to you, I just think it would be in your interest to clarify the issues that I raised and if possible, try to do so without going out of your way to make people uncomfortable. It's really not a good look.

 

Spoiler

can always delete their submission if they realize it was a bad submission.

I'm disappointed that you have decided to pursue this in the manner in which you have, ad hominem included. That said, surprisingly, you aren't auto-DQed from the competition! No need for that defeatist snark.

It'll have a chance to fit your vision if your vision is clear from the submission, which it should be. The vision is part of the submission and it should come across from the selected cards. That said, we have 0 art budget for the icons for AA items and Aloyzo can never guarantee that your name/vision will come through, as is explicitly stated in many places. But the main point is what Sentient Toaster said. If your theme isn't obvious without an accompanying description, your submission is probably not winner material.

I don't think I have anything to say about this other than what I've been saying... which is, if you want your best shot at winning, submit a good item.

Broken record? Aren't we all, bro.

Eh, I'm done. Meevar, I am sorry for my tone. Your line of questioning and your manner were very unpleasant. Maybe someone else can talk to you if my latest responses (in the spoiler) aren't satisfying. Good luck in the contest.

 

What do you mean by that, can you be more precise? What do you consider to be extra that's not allowed by the rules? My thank you tag? Killer's item edit info ("Edited to change Hard to Pin Down to Wings of Faith, as I don't think Hard to Pin Down is allowed on divine weapon")?

All AA winners for your reference:

• AA #1: Dynamic Staff (nothing extra)
• AA #2: Fashionable Ball and Chain (nothing extra)
• AA #3: Infected (nothing extra)
• AA #3: Argy Bargy Brand Sneakers (name of the monster)
• AA #3: Spritastrophe (nothing extra)
• AA #3: Tasty, Tasty Staff (name of the monster)
• AA #3: Muscle-bound Boots (name of the monster, item rarity, level + token info, thank you tag to the item name contributor)
• AA #3.5: Storge's Proboscis (name of the monster, item rarity, level + token info, item edit info)

 

@Pawndawan : Argy Bargy Brand Sneakers did have a visual description (which Flax followed), but it must have been edited before the comp. closed. From memory some others that were shortlisted had similar stuff, but I'm not going to go through it (because I'm probably wrong and they've all been edited if for no other reason).

I'm not complaining about the extra info, I think it's great (though maybe it should be spoilered for post-judging consideration). That's just my opinion though, what I'm asking is for clarity, not for a rule change.

@Flaxative :

Thanks for the apology, since it comes at the end of another ungracious post, not the start, I'm just going to take it as fair dinkum. I don't have the energy to hold grudges. I'm not sure what was unpleasant about my questions. I just want the competition to be fair and clear. I was extremely surprised that you took it as an invitation to be abusive and that your tone continued as it did, but I'd love if we could start on a clean slate.

Spoiler

I'm still not clear on what you think I did or said that was wrong, so if you think that's going to be a problem, I'm all ears, PM me if you want. I'm sure I'm not perfect, but I honestly haven't tried to offend you and I'm very sorry if that you seem to have misunderstood me somehow.

The no guarantees thing for art is a given and I think it's explained in the rules that the item can be altered as Blue Manchu sees fit, but would you mind giving an answer as to whether a including such a suggestion is going to count against an entry, whether it can be included, but only in a spoiler, or whatever you want.

I'm not asking you to explain why you've accepted entries in the past. I'm just asking where the rules stand in the future and more than anything, I'm asking if you could clarify that stuff in the AA thread OP - which might mean saying "while past entries have included other information/suggestions, these will no longer be tolerated" if that's how things are.

Thanks for answering my question about discussing entries. To clarify, does this mean an entrant can delete their entry, post it in the forge for criticism, then submit the "improved" version? Would you mind updating the competition OP to talk about how the Forge can to be used in conjunction with the competition?

Maybe this stuff doesn't seem confusing to you, but as a newbie, it's confusing.

 

Since CT5 has direct access to Flaxative (as evidenced by the fact that they do the discussion video together), I'm surprised he's allowed to enter the contests. That seems significantly more likely to cause unfairness than someone submitting irrelevant flavor text for their item.

 

We only pretend he can enter. It's a huge sham to make him feel better

 

Lighten up.
As a player, Flaxative organized and ran the first CH tournament, and caught grief for it.
He ran the first "Season" (before Guilds), and caught grief from all sides for his effort.
It seems he was always doing something to benefit the game and the players, such as putting up the Loot Fairy Tracker (and later the Loot Fairy Patrol) on his own website. He's even caught a little grief over that.
I'm only going by what I've seen in the forums. He may have caught more by PM.
Eventually he became a dev.
He put a hell of a lot of work into Caverns of Chaos, and is receiving both praise and quite a bit of grief in return.
He came up with Aloyso's Arsenal (which I kind of hate because I'm a collector), and with it comes its own share of grief.
For the record, I think he made a mistake last month with one of his selections, and I've said so on this forum. I also think his method of correcting it was very well done. The only people who never make mistakes are the ones who never do anything, and I always allow everybody one. I don't think Flax is one to repeat mistakes, and he is probably owed a few more on credit if he should need them.
Summation:
Is it really that difficult to just submit the things he asks for?
To refrain from openly discussing submitted items?
It seems pretty simple to me.